Measuring dB Level: Receiver or Field Strength Meter?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of decibel (dB) levels, particularly in relation to their measurement through receivers or field strength meters. Participants explore the definition of dB, its mathematical formulation, and its application in different contexts, including acoustics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants describe dB as a measure of relative power or amplitude between two signals, noting its exponential nature.
  • One participant provides the mathematical definition of dB in terms of power levels, highlighting the distinction when dealing with field quantities.
  • Another participant argues that dB is more accurately described as a logarithmic unit, citing intrinsic reasons for its use in measuring signal strength.
  • A participant mentions that dB levels can be shown through receivers or field strength meters if a reference value for 0 dB is established, referencing the threshold of hearing in acoustics.
  • Some participants discuss the ratios associated with dB levels, explaining how different dB values correspond to specific power ratios.
  • There is a mention of psychoacoustic data influencing the conventions of dB measurement, suggesting that the size of a dB was chosen to correspond with human perception of sound changes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the definition and implications of dB levels, with no clear consensus on the best way to describe or measure them. Some agree on the mathematical principles, while others challenge or refine these ideas based on different contexts.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved aspects regarding the definitions and conventions of dB, particularly in relation to different fields and the influence of psychoacoustic factors. The discussion reflects a range of interpretations and applications of the dB concept.

keetat
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can anyone describe wat is dB level.
can dB level be showed through receiver or field strength meter?
thx for helping
 
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dB is decibel is a measure of the relative power or amplitude between two signals.
It is an exponential unit because signal strength covers such a wide range of values, basically all you need to know is that every 3dB change is a doubling of power and every 6dB is a doubling of amplitude.
 
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When referring to the ratio between two power levels, it is defined as:
[tex]dB = 10 \log_{10}{\frac{P_1}{P_2}}[/tex]
Be careful, though: when you're dealing with field quantities (e.g. voltage), the 10 out front becomes a 20 since the power is proportional to the field strength squared.
 
mgb_phys said:
dB is decibel is a measure of the relative power or amplitude between two signals.
It is an exponential unit

i think it's more common to call it a "logarithmic unit".

because signal strength covers such a wide range of values,

there are more intrinsic reasons. it's because, if viewed linearly, no particular value of signal strength (or relative change in signal strength) deserves to be defined as the unit for which all other signal strengths to be measured against.

for example, regarding the price of stocks: http://www.fool.com/foolfaq/foolfaqcharts.htm

[tex]\%[/tex] ( dummy - the first % symbol is not rendered correctly)

if we redefined the meaning of "percent change" from the existing:

[tex]\% \mathrm{ change} = \frac{ V_{after} - V_{before} } { V_{before} } \ \times \ 100 \%[/tex]

to

[tex]\% \mathrm{change} = \log _e \left(\frac{V_{after}}{V_{before}} \right) \ \times \ 100 \% = \left( \log _e (V_{after}) - \log _e(V_{before}) \right) \ \times \ 100 \%[/tex]

then we can confidently say that if the stock rose in price exactly 5%, then later fell precisely 6%, then later rose another exact 1%, with the latter definition we could say that the final value of the stock is exactly what we started with. not so with the conventional definition of % change.

dB is similar to that but a dB would be more like 11.5%, the difference being just one of convention. we can say that a signal that increases exactly 5 dB, then later fell precisely 6 dB, then later rose another exact 1 dB, has the exact same amplitude at the end as it started with.

basically all you need to know is that every 3dB change is a doubling of power and every 6dB is a doubling of amplitude.

it would be good to know more than that.
 
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keetat said:
can anyone describe what is dB level.
can dB level be showed through receiver or field strength meter?

i think so, if there is a reference value for what 0 dB means.

in acoustics, they sometimes assign "0 dB" to the threshold of hearing which, in SI units, is 0.0000204 N/m2 pressure variation or 10-12 watts/m2 intensity at a frequency of 1000 Hz.
 
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The decibel is a way of expressing ratio -- nothing more, nothing less.

A ratio of -10 dB is 1:10 (10^-1.0)
A ratio of -6 dB is 1:4 (10^-0.6)
A ratio of -3 dB is 1:2 (10^-0.3)
A ratio of 0 dB is 1:1 (10^0)
A ratio of 3 dB is 2:1 (10^0.3)
A ratio of 6 dB is 4:1 (10^0.6)
A ratio of 10 dB is 10:1 (10^1.0)

etc. The conventions regarding 20 and 10 are just that: conventions. They're not always followed, so consider the context carefully when comparing two numbers expressed in dB from two different sources.

- Warren
 
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chroot said:
The decibel is a way of expressing ratio -- nothing more, nothing less.

i think there is a teeny bit more than that. although it comes from convention, the convention is informed a little by psychoacoustic data. for a person of normal good hearing, a dB roughly corresponded to a Just Noticeable Difference in loudness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_noticeable_difference
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weber–Fechner_law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel

that's where the 10 (for power ratios) or 20 (for voltage ratios) came from. it may have been fudged slightly (because they liked powers of 10 and nice even numbers), but the size of a dB (as opposed to some other log unit) was chosen in such a way that you might be able to just barely hear a 1 dB change, if you have good hearing and are in an otherwize quiet environment.
 
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