Measuring Entangled Particles in two different Basis

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the measurement of entangled spin half particles in different bases, specifically focusing on the implications of measuring one particle in a rotated direction (θ) and the subsequent measurement of the other particle in the Z direction. The scope includes theoretical considerations of quantum mechanics, particularly related to entanglement and measurement probabilities.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants discuss the form of the wave function for two entangled particles and how it changes when one particle is measured in a rotated direction.
  • One participant presents a formula for calculating the probability of measurement outcomes based on the inner product of the eigenstates in different bases.
  • Another participant expresses confusion regarding the notation and requests a more explicit explanation of the probabilities involved.
  • Some participants assert that the order of measurements does not affect the probabilities, emphasizing that Bob's measurement outcomes depend solely on the direction of his measurement.
  • There are detailed calculations provided for the probabilities of different measurement outcomes based on the angles involved.
  • One participant notes that the probabilities can be derived from expressing the state as a tensor product, allowing for a clearer understanding of the amplitudes involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the measurement outcomes are independent of the order of measurements, but there are varying interpretations of the implications of this independence and the specific calculations involved. Some points remain contested, particularly regarding the clarity of the mathematical notation and the derivation of probabilities.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved issues regarding the clarity of notation and the assumptions underlying the calculations. Some participants express a lack of background in quantum mechanics, which may affect their understanding of the discussion.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in quantum mechanics, particularly those exploring the concepts of entanglement, measurement theory, and the mathematical formalism used in quantum state representation.

randomuser3210
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Consider two entangled spin half particles given by the generic form of Bell Equation in Z-axis:
##\psi = (a\uparrow \uparrow + b\downarrow \downarrow)## where ##a^2+b^2=1##

In a (2D) planer rotated (by an angle ##\theta##) direction the new equation can be given by:

##|\psi \rangle = [\alpha \cos^2(\theta/2) + \beta \sin^2(\theta/2)] |\uparrow_a\uparrow \rangle + ##
##[(\alpha \sin^2 \theta/2 + \beta \cos^2 \theta/2)] |\downarrow\downarrow \rangle ##
##[(\beta-\alpha) \cos(\theta/2) \sin(\theta/2)] (|\uparrow\uparrow \rangle +|\uparrow\downarrow \rangle +##

Now Alice keeps one particle and sends the other to Bob. Here is the Q:

1. Suppose, Alice measures the particle in ##theta## direction. Then after that, Bob measures in the Z direction. What is the probability of Bob getting the particle ##\uparrow## and ##\downarrow## in Z direction.

I know that as soon as Alice measures the particle in ##\theta## direction, the entanglement collapses. So we can measure the probability by using wave function. But, can someone help with the cases for 'cross measurement' i.e. as above?
 
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Let ##|\sigma_{\theta} \rangle## and ##|\sigma_z \rangle## be the eigenvectors of the spin component in ##\theta## and ##z## direction respectively. Then the probability that A meausures the value ##\sigma_{\theta}## on her spin and B ##\sigma_z## on his, is given by
$$P(\sigma_{\theta},\sigma_z)=|\langle \sigma_{\theta},\sigma_z|\psi \rangle|^2.$$
You only need to express everything in a common basis (I've given all this in a thread some days in this forums, so you can just copy it from there).
 
vanhees71 said:
Let ##|\sigma_{\theta} \rangle## and ##|\sigma_z \rangle## be the eigenvectors of the spin component in ##\theta## and ##z## direction respectively. Then the probability that A meausures the value ##\sigma_{\theta}## on her spin and B ##\sigma_z## on his, is given by
$$P(\sigma_{\theta},\sigma_z)=|\langle \sigma_{\theta},\sigma_z|\psi \rangle|^2.$$
You only need to express everything in a common basis (I've given all this in a thread some days in this forums, so you can just copy it from there).

Thank you. I don't have background in QM/Physics. So I am lost at this compact reply and notation. If possible at all, could you provide more explicit probabilities (in notations in OP). Or point to a resource that goes step by step..
 
randomuser3210 said:
Now Alice keeps one particle and sends the other to Bob. Here is the Q:

1. Suppose, Alice measures the particle in ##theta## direction. Then after that, Bob measures in the Z direction. What is the probability of Bob getting the particle ##\uparrow## and ##\downarrow## in Z direction.

I know that as soon as Alice measures the particle in ##\theta## direction, the entanglement collapses. So we can measure the probability by using wave function. But, can someone help with the cases for 'cross measurement' i.e. as above?

It doesn't matter who measures first. Bob's measurement has a probability ##|a|^2## or ##|b|^2## to be up or down. If Bob's outcome is up (or down), then the probability that Alice's measurement is up is ##\cos^2 \frac \theta 2## (or ##\sin^2 \frac \theta 2##). That gives the four probabilities:
$$p(\uparrow_A \uparrow_B) = |a|^2\cos^2 \frac \theta 2; \ \ p(\downarrow_A \uparrow_B) = |a|^2\sin^2 \frac \theta 2; \ \ p(\uparrow_A \downarrow_B) = |b|^2\sin^2 \frac \theta 2; \ \ p(\downarrow_A \downarrow_B) = |b|^2\cos^2 \frac \theta 2$$
 
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PeroK said:
It doesn't matter who measures first. Bob's measurement has a probability ##|a|^2## or ##|b|^2## to be up or down. If Bob's outcome is up (or down), then the probability that Alice's measurement is up is ##\cos^2 \frac \theta 2## (or ##\sin^2 \frac \theta 2##). That gives the four probabilities:
$$p(\uparrow_A \uparrow_B) = |a|^2\cos^2 \frac \theta 2; \ \ p(\downarrow_A \uparrow_B) = |a|^2\sin^2 \frac \theta 2; \ \ p(\uparrow_A \downarrow_B) = |b|^2\sin^2 \frac \theta 2; \ \ p(\downarrow_A \downarrow_B) = |b|^2\cos^2 \frac \theta 2$$

So if I understand correctly, no matter who measures in what direction first (in any of the 4 General Bell States, not just this one), the end result of the measurement of Bob (and the probabilities of ##\downarrow_B or \uparrow_B## only depends on the direction Bob measures in.
 
The arguments of the cos and sin factors must be ##\theta/2##:

Let's calculate everything in the ##\sigma_z##-eigenbasis, ##|\pm 1/2 \rangle##. For the single spins you have the eigenvectors for the spin components in ##\theta##-direction
$$|1/2_{\theta} \rangle=\cos(\theta/2) |1/2 \rangle + \sin(\theta/2)|-1/2 \rangle$$
$$|-1/2_{\theta} \rangle=-\sin(\theta/2) |1/2 \rangle +\cos(\theta/2) |-1/2 \rangle.$$
With
$$|\Psi \rangle=\alpha |1/2,1/2 \rangle + \beta|-1/2,-1/2 \rangle$$
we need the following scalar products
$$\langle 1/2_{\theta},1/2|\Psi \rangle=\alpha \cos(\theta/2), \quad \langle 1/2_{\theta},-1/2|\Psi \rangle = \beta \sin(\theta/2), \quad \langle -1/2_{\theta},1/2|\Psi \rangle=-\alpha \sin(\theta/2), \quad \langle -1/2_{\theta},-1/2|\Psi \rangle = \beta \cos(\theta/2).$$
The probabilities are the moduli squared:
$$P(1/2_{\theta},1/2)=|\alpha|^2 \cos^2(\theta/2), \quad P(1/2_{\theta},-1/2)=|\beta|^2 \sin^2(\theta/2), \quad P(-1/2_{\theta},1/2)=|\alpha|^2 \sin^2(\theta/2), \quad P(-1/2_{\theta},-1/2)=|\beta^2|\cos^2(\theta/2).$$
 
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randomuser3210 said:
So if I understand correctly, no matter who measures in what direction first (in any of the 4 General Bell States, not just this one), the end result of the measurement of Bob (and the probabilities of ##\downarrow_B or \uparrow_B## only depends on the direction Bob measures in.
Yes. You can always think of it as a simultaneous measurement. Bob's results are the same statistically whatever Alice does; and vice versa.
 
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PS another way to see this is to express the state as a tensor product, using different bases for the constituent particles:
$$\psi = a \uparrow \uparrow + b \downarrow \downarrow = a \uparrow \otimes (\cos \frac \theta 2 \uparrow_{\theta} - \sin \frac \theta 2 \downarrow_{\theta}) + b \downarrow \otimes (\sin \frac \theta 2 \uparrow_{\theta} + \cos \frac \theta 2 \downarrow_{\theta})$$ $$ = a \cos \frac \theta 2 (\uparrow \otimes \uparrow_{\theta}) - a \sin \frac \theta 2 (\uparrow \otimes \downarrow_{\theta}) + b\sin \frac \theta 2 ( \downarrow \otimes \uparrow_{\theta}) + b \cos \frac \theta 2 (\downarrow \otimes \downarrow_{\theta})$$
And then you can just read off the amplitudes.
 
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Remark: Of course my notation ##|a,b \rangle \equiv |a \rangle \oplus |b \rangle##. It's just laziness of physicists' notation not to write out the tensor (Kronecker) product symbols ;-)).
 
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