Merging Gravity with the other forces

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the challenges and mathematical considerations involved in merging Einstein's Field Equations with Quantum Mechanics and Quantum Field Theory. Participants explore various theoretical frameworks, known problems, and the implications of non-renormalizability in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that if a solution existed for merging GR and QM, a theory of quantum gravity would already be established.
  • Linearized General Relativity (GR) can be quantized as an effective QFT, but it is considered non-renormalizable, introducing complications in the mathematical formulation.
  • One participant suggests quantizing the gravitomagnetic field similarly to how the electromagnetic field is quantized.
  • There is mention of Kaluza-Klein theory as a potential approach, although some participants clarify that this may not align with the original intent of the question.
  • Concerns are raised about the mathematical difficulties in merging GR and QM, particularly regarding the Riemann curvature and the implications of non-renormalizability.
  • Some participants express frustration over the lack of detailed mathematical explanations available in the forum, suggesting that textbooks may be necessary for deeper understanding.
  • String theory and loop quantum gravity are mentioned as attempts to merge gravity with quantum mechanics, but participants highlight ongoing challenges and frustrations within these frameworks.
  • Participants discuss the difficulties of applying QFT in curved spacetime and the absence of black hole treatment in standard QFT.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on how to effectively merge GR with QM. Participants express differing views on the feasibility of various approaches, the significance of non-renormalizability, and the adequacy of existing theories like string theory and loop quantum gravity.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the inability to merge GR and QM is a mainstream issue, yet the specific mathematical reasons for this remain unresolved in the discussion. The complexity of the topic and the need for a solid background in both quantum field theory and general relativity are emphasized.

  • #31
weirdoguy said:
Not in four dimensions. General definition is ##R=R^\mu_{\phantom{\mu}\mu}##. You should really study some textbook on very basics before you try to learn about quantum gravity.
The parameter r is a geometrical invariant of the hyperbolic space, and the sectional curvature is K = −1/r2. The scalar curvature is thus S = −n(n − 1)/r2. Explain this to me, from what I understand it is just a radius.
 
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  • #32
VictorMedvil said:
from what I understand it is just a radius.

Then your understanding is flawed. As I said before ##R=R^\mu_{\phantom{\mu}\mu}##, that is ##R## is a trace of Ricci tensor. Please get some textbook on general relativity and learn everything properly, not from random articles on the internet.
 
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  • #33
Why is this a "hot thread"? It is basically someone quoting from Wikipedia who demands an answer to something he is not capable of handling.
 
  • #34
Matter Times said:
Why is this a "hot thread"? It is basically someone quoting from Wikipedia who demands an answer to something he is not capable of handling.

No, I am perfectly able to handle the information, it is just me and weirdoguy have differing opinions about this.
 
  • #35
Okay :)
 
  • #36
VictorMedvil said:
it is just me and @weirdoguy have differing opinions about this

I was not stating my opinions, I was stating facts.
 
  • #37
VictorMedvil said:
How mathematically within the confines of mainstream physics would you experts in physics merge Einstein's Field Equations with Quantum Mechanics and Quantum Field Theory? ...

Strings looked good. Super symmetry looked good. What I know is that the standard model takes years to learn. General Relativity takes years to learn. So combining them is going to take years and years to learn.
 
  • #38
I've got a field model that takes one reading to understand. Hawking said that when the unifying principle comes to light it'll be understandable. Surprisingly my paper on this was published and if simplicity is the standard - then my thesis is overqualified. I'd post a link but I'm not sure that it's allowed on these forums.
 
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  • #39
rosie70 said:
I've got a field model that takes one reading to understand. Hawking said that when the unifying principle comes to light it'll be understandable. Surprisingly my paper on this was published and if simplicity is the standard - then my thesis is overqualified. I'd post a link but I'm not sure that it's allowed on these forums.
Please send me the link via private message (PM). Click on my avatar and "Start a conversation" to send me the PM. Thanks.
 
  • #40
rosie70 said:
Surprisingly my paper on this was published and if simplicity is the standard - then my thesis is overqualified. I'd post a link but I'm not sure that it's allowed on these forums.
IJSER is a known predatory journal.

https://predatoryjournals.com/journals/#I

It is not part of the professional scientific literature.
 
  • #41
Dale said:
IJSER is a known predatory journal.

It's even worse than I imagined. There are articles without authors! I picked an article at random. Here is how it begins, verbatim:

Have you ever heard of Big Bang theory? This is a famous theory proposed by many of scientists and accepted globally. There are some who criticize this theory. This is theory with most accuracy when compared to the other. But the theory Big Bang itself explains everything about the origin of Universe. I don't think so. There should be something that explains more about the origin of Universe. This paper presents that something, which explains the origin of the hot, dense point of the Big Bang theory. What was this hot, dense point? According to the Big Bang theory, our present Universe is formed from this point. It tells us that Universe is formed due to the massive explosion within this point. This happened some 15 billion years ago. If the Universe is formed from this point, then from where this point is formed? Let’s see it.

And another introduction:

Dark matter and dark energy can’t be detected by heavy machineries. It is detected by subconscious mind. To achieve it we should follow awakening of kundalini energy through regular practice of mantra, tantra, yantra, yoga and meditation. After the completion of process we are able to see present, past and future through the Guru Chakra. Chakras are multidimensional vibrations from where 50 letters are come from sunyabrahma. Kundalini yoga is often identified as the most dangerous form of yoga because of the involvement of subtle energies. Sunya chakra is the void chakra connected to dark universe. We forget thyself through the process of kundalini yoga.

Wow. Just wow.
 
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  • #42
rosie70 said:
I've got a field model that takes one reading to understand. Hawking said that when the unifying principle comes to light it'll be understandable. Surprisingly my paper on this was published and if simplicity is the standard - then my thesis is overqualified. I'd post a link but I'm not sure that it's allowed on these forums.
berkeman said:
Please send me the link via private message (PM). Click on my avatar and "Start a conversation" to send me the PM. Thanks.
Thank you for sending us the link to your paper, @rosie70 -- As I said in my PM reply to you, it has been reviewed by the Mentors, and will not be allowed at the PF. Thanks for asking before posting it.
 
  • #43
The Dunning-Kruger is strong in this one
 

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