# News Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles

1. May 1, 2007

### edward

Bush has vetoed the Iraq pull out schedule bill, no big surprise, but what is the plan for Iraq? It appears that we are in this for the foreseeable future judging by the vehicles the Marines have been ordering.

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/issues/2007/April/Surgeinvehicle.htm [Broken]

6,800 in one year when we couldn't provide 2,000 up armored Humvees in two years?? Why is there such a sudden a sense of urgency that we are, and will be, buying vehicles from foreign countries? The 2008 election perhaps?

7. May 2, 2007

### Futobingoro

Even in an Abrams tank, one isn't safe from all IEDs. Insurgents wire two or three 155mm artillery shells together and place them in an abandoned vehicle or bury them on the side of a road. The resulting explosion is so large that body/vehicle armour often makes little difference.

8. May 2, 2007

I made a major typo when I mentioned a cost of $100K price range. The vehicles will be coming from a number of companies with some costing closer to one million dollars. http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200704251912DOWJONESDJONLINE001332_FORTUNE5.htm [Broken] Force Protection and Force Dynamics LLC are heavily involved in this. It is suspect to me that new or little know companies have been receiving big contracts form the DOD in the past few years. http://www.forceprotection.net/news/news_article.html?id=174 Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017 9. May 2, 2007 ### trajan22 Is there at least a consensus here that these mine resistant vehicles will at least be a reasonable improvement over an armored humvee? 10. May 2, 2007 ### drankin I would say so. Maybe not real effective for the vehicle that is the direct target but the other vehicles in the convoy would certainly be more pretected from damage. 11. May 2, 2007 ### Astronuc ### Staff: Mentor Well, hopefully the procurement specs and the military would require that the armour is superior to the Humvee. Many Humvees were sent without proper armour for the situation. Some even had canvas tops. AK-47's and RPGs were knocking out Humvees left and right. The IEDs are even worse, especially those taking out an Abrams or Chieftan. Somebody, Petraeus perhpas, needs to get the Sunnis and Shiis talking rather than fighting. There is already a rift between Iraqi Sunnis and al Qaida members over the indiscriminate killing by al Qaida people. Without a political solution, this civil war will grind on, and the US will probably loose about 1000 soldiers/yr at current rate. 12. May 2, 2007 ### trajan22 Agreed. How many documented cases are there of an IED taking out a main battle tank? Im just curious because it never appears in anything Ive read or watched about the war. I have heard of tanks being damaged but never destroyed, and the crew has always had no or minor injuries. I still cannot comprehend why the military decided to deploy humvees in the manner they did. Humvees were designed to replace the willis jeep from world war 2 and were not really intended for frontline heavy combat. The types of operations that these humvees have been used for is what we would have used APCs for in previous wars. 13. May 2, 2007 ### Futobingoro The last few paragraphs of this section: 14. May 2, 2007 ### edward They will definitely be safer than Humvees, And unlike the up-armored Humvees they are built to carry the weight of the extra armor. What I wonder is why have we waited so long to build more of these vehicles? They have been used for special protection for VIPs since the beginning of the war. Are they just going to be on a political agenda for the 2008 election? I am also doubtful whether a company that has only built the vehicles on a small scale will be able to produce thousand by next year. We didn't have much luck trying to manufacture a much smaller number of up-armored humvees. The Cougar in the form in the link below is the most common MRAP. There is also one called the Buffalo that has been designed to dig up mines and buried IED's. But both are vulnerable to the newer shaped charged IEDs which Astronuc explained. http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/LAND_Cougar_Iraqi_ILAV_lg.jpg Last edited: May 2, 2007 15. May 2, 2007 ### trajan22 Im not sure why they just decided to begin manufacturing these for full scale use. You would have thought that they would have been doing this for the last 3 yrs. Sometimes at least in the past in order to manufacture large quantities of vehicles many companies recieve contracts on the same vehicle and all mass produce them but Im not sure how they will proceed with this. To say the least it should be interesting to see how the military will manufacture such an enormous quantity in such a small time period. ( I doubt they even meet half the quota) But the way I see it at least the few that are deployed will be better than nothing. As I said in my last post I cant see why they deployed humvees in the numbers they did for jobs they werent designed to perform. Its become obvious that there is plenty of mismanagement going on. 16. May 2, 2007 ### devil-fire these new weapons could be extremely dangerous to even the new vehicles. after reading this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosively_Formed_Penetrator it seems kind of disturbing that weapons likely costing less then$200 could penetrate inches of armor from fairly long distances. if these new EFP weapons become as common as roadside bombs, this could be extremely dangerous to coalition forces.

these vehicles sound more suited to the role the humvee has been used for these past years, but i don't think they could put up well against these new weapons. if they had reactive armor they would be much better off, but there are ups and downs to reactive (not the least of which is the price)

17. May 3, 2007

### trajan22

How effective are these against troops on the ground.(obviously deadly if directly hit but I mean the blast radius) Im not entirely sure about this but since almost all the force seems to be concentrated on a relatively small area thus creating a huge velocity over a small area(the plate). So if I am thinking of this correctly would this mean that the effective blast radius is much smaller for these shaped charges than for non shaped charges?

18. May 3, 2007

### drankin

The money might be well spent in technology to see an IED before a vehicle gets to it. Like an ultra long range precision metal detector type deal that scans the road ahead and pinpoints suspect metal concentrations forward of the convoy.

One problem would be the fact that those convoys are usually moving pretty damn fast to throw off sniper fire.

19. May 3, 2007

### devil-fire

this is true, these weapons make for poor anti-infantry weapons. however, there are lots of good marksmen in iraq who can shoot soldiers between their helmets and vests. usually when soldiers have somewhere to go they stay in the humvee until it is necessary to get out, which is why these anti-armor weapons are so dangerous

20. May 3, 2007

### devil-fire

yeah, that or on an intelligence organization that can find who is bringing the materials for the weapons into iraq and stop them... actually yeah, i think the safe bet is to go with the IED detectors.