Mini magnetosphere within Earth's Magnetosphere

  • #1

Summary:

Can such magnetosphere exist on Earth?
Summary: Can such magnetosphere exist on Earth?

The moon has mini magnetospheres produced from its crust shown below.
18703.ngsversion.1421959478015.adapt.1900.1.jpg

e-4_med.jpg
moon.jpg


Can Earth have similar magnetic properties in its crust like the surface on the Moon to create a mini-magnetosphere? Are ther places on Earth where a mini magnetosphere exist over a magnetic rich region be strong enough to provide protection during a geomagnetic reversal when the Earth's main magnetosphere disappears or is unstable?

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/4/100414-moon-magnetosphere-solar-wind/
https://earthweb.ess.washington.edu/space/Planetary/moon/moon.jpghttps://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2006/26jun_lunarswirls
 
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  • #2
anorlunda
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Summary: Can such magnetosphere exist on Earth?

Can Earth have similar magnetic pockets of crust with magnetic properties similar the moon?
Magnetic anomalies are marked on marine charts. I've seen them make the compass spin around and around.

There are also anomalies associated with field reversals, that transiently create multiple N and S poles.

https://opentextbc.ca/geology/chapter/9-3-earths-magnetic-field/
1569180785623.png
 
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  • #4
anorlunda
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This is a good answer but leaves the question if the Earth has any crust that has magnetic properties generating a mini-magnetosphere?
The anomalies marked on marine charts that I mentioned are due to the local Earth crust, such as an underwater iron-rich mountain. If that's not it, then please explain better what you mean.

Variations in the crust create very local magnetic anomalies. Earth's magnetic field that give us N and S poles, and extends into space is caused by the dynamo effect of liquid motion in the Earth's mantle, not the crust.
 
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  • #5
The anomalies marked on marine charts that I mentioned are due to the local Earth crust, such as an underwater iron-rich mountain. If that's not it, then please explain better what you mean.

Variations in the crust create very local magnetic anomalies. Earth's magnetic field that give us N and S poles, and extends into space is caused by the dynamo effect of liquid motion in the Earth's mantle, not the crust.
The one in the pictures of the Moon I gave also expand into space without the dynamo effect and would like to know if there is such places on Earth that would provide this same protection during a polar reversal?
 
  • #6
anorlunda
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The one in the pictures of the Moon I gave also expand into space without the dynamo effect and would like to know if there is such places on Earth that would provide this same protection during a polar reversal?
OK, I see better what you're asking. It depends critically on the magnitude of the local fields. It is very complicated. How local? Effects of the atmosphere? Effects of surface currents?

Because of the complexities, perhaps the best answer could come from the fossil records of past reversals. Did the reversal have significant effects on Earth's living organisms, yes or no? I can't answer that.
 
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  • #7
davenn
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The moon has mini magnetospheres produced from its crust shown below.
no it doesnt !, a sphere implies something that surrounds and that is not the case for the Moon

This is a good answer but leaves the question if the Earth has any crust that has magnetic properties generating a mini-magnetosphere?
Again, you need to stop using that term .... the article you linked to doesn't use it
you shouldn't either, it's an incorrect definition :smile:

@anorlunda 's Earth examples are a good response to your question considering your
incorrect use of the word magnetosphere

The Earth, like the Moon has regions where there are magnetic anomalies, as does the planet Mars
which also has no full magnetic field ( tho it is suspected that it once did.)

If you did some research, I would suspect that you would find that the reason for localised magnetic
fields is the same on each of those 3 'planetary" bodies .....

The anomalies marked on marine charts that I mentioned are due to the local Earth crust, such as an underwater iron-rich mountain. If that's not it, then please explain better what you mean.

Variations in the crust create very local magnetic anomalies. Earth's magnetic field that give us N and S poles, and extends into space is caused by the dynamo effect of liquid motion in the Earth's mantle, not the crust.

cheers
Dave
 
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  • #8
davenn
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The one in the pictures of the Moon I gave also expand into space without the dynamo effect and would like to know if there is such places on Earth that would provide this same protection during a polar reversal?
why would they provide protection?, their field strengths would be very small
 
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  • #9
The term mini magnetosphere is in relation to the small pockets of magnetic fields produced by the moon's crustal surface which does extend out past the ground into space with a possibility of providing equivalent protection as our own magnetosphere. Although these pockets of magnetism are smaller, they are also stronger and blocking Cosmic particles better in the same given space.
 
  • #10
davenn
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The term mini magnetosphere is in relation to the small pockets of magnetic fields

It is still incorrect use that you are making of it
As I said, that article DOESNT use the term

When you state thing like this in science, it pays to be as accurate as possible,
otherwise confusion results when some one may think you are referring to something else


Dave
 
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  • #11
davenn
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Although these pockets of magnetism are smaller, they are also stronger and blocking Cosmic particles better in the same given space.

reference for that please
It may have been in that article, but I don't recall reading it
 
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  • #12
reference for that please
It may have been in that article, but I don't recall reading it
It may not be in that particular website but it Googles easily. Later I will try to find where the magnetic field on the moon referred as a mini magnetosphere. Thanks for helping and pointing that out.
 
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  • #14
jim mcnamara
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Please no more "danger from pole reversal stuff" - it is not real.

All of this questioning is predicated on the assumption that pole reversal == instant death. Or maybe an extinction event.

There is NOTHING in the fossil record to indicate this endangerment of life ever happened because of pole movement. Volcanic activity, decent chance for a yes.

The speed of pole reversal is SLOW, not like flipping a switch. There are even some geophysicists who postulate that we are in one now because of the speed of change in the position of the N magnetic pole has increased. To about a few, say ~10km per year. Plus you can see maps of where the pole has been over the past dozen centuries or so. All over the place from Siberia to Baffin Island. And points elsewhere.

National Geographic explanation:
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2019/02/magnetic-north-update-navigation-maps/
Since you seem to want to worry, try a more likely concern: consider coronal mass ejections, CME.
If we experienced an X class CME, like what apparently happened in 1859 - called the Carrington Event - things as they stand to day would suffer problems - damage to electrical systems, business systems, home systems could be very expensive to repair. This is what NOAA's Space Weather center is all about, they hope to prevent another problem like the 1859 event:

https://www.swpc.noaa.gov/
see also ( very much history oriented, which is appropriate):

https://www.history.com/news/a-perfect-solar-superstorm-the-1859-carrington-event
 
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  • #15
Please no more "danger from pole reversal stuff" - it is not real.

All of this questioning is predicated on the assumption that pole reversal == instant death. Or maybe an extinction event.

There is NOTHING in the fossil record to indicate this endangerment of life ever happened because of pole movement. Volcanic activity, decent chance for a yes.

The speed of pole reversal is SLOW, not like flipping a switch. There are even some geophysicists who postulate that we are in one now because of the speed of change in the position of the N magnetic pole has increased. To about a few, say ~10km per year. Plus you can see maps of where the pole has been over the past dozen centuries or so. All over the place from Siberia to Baffin Island. And points elsewhere.

National Geographic explanation:
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2019/02/magnetic-north-update-navigation-maps/
Since you seem to want to worry, try a more likely concern: consider coronal mass ejections, CME.
If we experienced an X class CME, like what apparently happened in 1859 - called the Carrington Event - things as they stand to day would suffer problems - damage to electrical systems, business systems, home systems could be very expensive to repair. This is what NOAA's Space Weather center is all about, they hope to prevent another problem like the 1859 event:

https://www.swpc.noaa.gov/
see also ( very much history oriented, which is appropriate):

https://www.history.com/news/a-perfect-solar-superstorm-the-1859-carrington-event
It may not be a life-threatening event but the Earth would be more susceptible to solar flares during this time. Which leads me to the question again. Would a magnetic Rich area provide more protection against solar storms or a cosmic radiation?
 
  • #16
jim mcnamara
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Where are you getting this from? Please give us a valid citation. I'd like to know. I do not mind learning something new. Otherwise this thread will be closed. We do not support speculation or personal theory on PF.
 
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  • #17
jim mcnamara
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetosphere
The magnetosphere is huge compared to the size of earth --- To have an equivalent effect the minimagnetposphere would have to be large enough to be able to deflect high energy particles, which requires large distance as you can see in the graphics in the article. Please look at it.

I cannot find anything in the literature to give any indication of the size of these things.

Using "magnetic anomaly", a more standard term, gives me more.

This: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Digital_Magnetic_Anomaly_Map
indicates :
Some of the magnetic anomalies shown in the WDMAM generally relates to the altitude level of 5 kilometres (3.1 mi).
This is not going to block very much, when compared with the magnetosphere which has a bowshock 47000km above the earth. Look at the graphic in the magnetosphere article for scale.
 
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  • #18
Where are you getting this from? Please give us a valid citation. I'd like to know. I do not mind learning something new. Otherwise this thread will be closed. We do not support speculation or personal theory on PF.
the fact that the moon came from Maybe there's a place on Earth that have the same magnetosphere as the Moon. Not speculation on the Moon's magnetosphere, but deductive reasoning that such field may also exit on Earth possible stronger than the ones one the moon?
 
  • #19
jim mcnamara
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Thread closed.
 
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