Mobius Band as Bundle Over S^1: Trivialization Containing (1,0) in S^1

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical characterization of the Möbius band as a bundle over the circle S^1, focusing on the challenges of finding a trivialization that includes the point (1,0) in S^1. Participants explore various mappings, quotient spaces, and the implications of twisting in the bundle structure.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a series of maps to demonstrate that the Möbius band can be viewed as a bundle over S^1, specifically noting the difficulty in trivializing at the point (1,0).
  • Another participant questions the validity of the proposed trivialization, suggesting that the numbers used in the mapping may not align with the expected structure of the bundle.
  • A later reply corrects the earlier numerical values, indicating a need to rescale by 2π and suggesting a new form for Pi^-1(U).
  • Further contributions discuss the removal of the twist in the bundle and suggest a diffeomorphism to facilitate this process, although some participants express confusion about how the twisting at (1,0) is resolved.
  • One participant raises concerns about the implications of the diffeomorphism and the nature of the twisting, seeking clarification on how it is addressed in the context of the Möbius bundle.
  • Another participant provides an analogy involving cutting a physical Möbius strip to illustrate the concept of trivialization and the removal of twist.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the trivialization process and the implications of twisting in the Möbius bundle. There is no consensus on the resolution of these issues, and multiple competing perspectives remain throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in their approaches, such as the dependence on specific mappings and the challenges of accurately representing the structure of the Möbius band. The discussion reflects ongoing uncertainty regarding the mathematical steps involved in achieving a satisfactory trivialization.

WWGD
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Hi:
I am trying to show that the Mobius Band M is a
bundle over S^1.
It seems easy to find trivializations for all points
except for the trouble point (1,0).

This is what I have so far:

Let R be the reals, and I<R be the unit interval
[0,1]< R (i.e., [0,1] as a subspace of the Reals.)

We have these maps:

1) p:I-->S^1 , a qiotient map, i.e., we give S^1 the

quotient topology.

2) q: a quotient map on IxR : identify points

(0,y) with (1,-y) . The "identified space"

--i.e., the quotient of IxR by q -- will be the

top space. (this is the Mob. Band.)

3)The Projection map Pi ,from the top space in 2


down to S^1 is defined by :

Pi([s,t])= p(')

( where ' is the class of s under p:[0,1]->S^1 as above, so that the clases are:

{ {0,1}, {x} ) : 0<x<1 }


Then: *****


A trivialization for U= S^1-{(1,0)} is

U itself; Pi^-1(U)=(1,0)xR , is already a

product space. The identity map gives us a homeo.


*****

A trivialization containing the point (1,0) in S^1:

This seems to work, but seems too easy:

We consider an open set (open in S^1 ; quotient ) containing (1,0). We parametrize

S^1 by arclength , "based" at (1,0), (i.e., arclength at (1,0)=0) , and we use , e.g.,

an arc U from (0.1) , to (0,-1) .

We want to show that Pi^-1(U) is homeo. to UxR . We have:


Pi^-1(U) =[0,1.57]xR union [4.71,6.28]xR


Am I on the right track?.

Thanks.
 
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Pi^-1(U) =[0,1.57]xR union [4.71,6.28]xR

How can these numbers be right if the bundle is a quotient of [0,1] x R ?!

For simplicity, I suggest you consider U=S^1\(-1,0) so that Pi^1(U)=([0,1]\{½} x R )/~.

And now the goal is to remove the twist of the bundle that's "at" the fiber over (1,0).
 
"Pi^-1(U) =[0,1.57]xR union [4.71,6.28]xR

How can these numbers be right if the bundle is a quotient of [0,1] x R ?!"


Right. My bad; I did not rescale by 2PI. This should be:

Pi^-1(U)=[0,1/4]xR union [3/4,1]xR


"For simplicity, I suggest you consider U=S^1\(-1,0) so that Pi^1(U)=([0,1]\{½} x R )/~.

And now the goal is to remove the twist of the bundle that's "at" the fiber over (1,0)"


O.K, thanks. I tried it, but I don't see too well how to remove the twist:



This is what I got: (R^+ is the positive reals, etc.)


Pi^-1(U)= [[0,1/2)xR union (1/2,1]xR]/~ =

0xR^+ union (0,1/2)xR union (1/2,1)xR union 1xR^+ union (0,0)


i.e., I collapsed 1xR^- with 0xR^+ , and I collapsed 0xR^- with 1xR^+ , and

(0,0)~(1,0).


How does this help, tho.?. Would you please suggest.?
 
With U=S^1\(-1,0), we have Pi^1(U)=([0,1]\{½} x R )/~. Write [t,x] for the equivalence class of (t,x) under ~.

Define a diffeomorphism f:Pi^1(U) --> (½,3/2) x R by setting

f([t,x]) = (t,x) for (t,x) in (½,1] x R,
f([t,x])=(t+1,-x) for (t,x) in [0,½) x R
 
Quasar 987 wrote:

" With U=S^1\(-1,0), we have Pi^1(U)=([0,1]\{½} x R )/~. Write [t,x] for the equivalence class of (t,x) under ~.

Define a diffeomorphism f:Pi^1(U) --> (½,3/2) x R by setting

f([t,x]) = (t,x) for (t,x) in (½,1] x R,
f([t,x])=(t+1,-x) for (t,x) in [0,½) x R "

Interesting. I too have been curious about the details of the Mobius Bundle as

a non-trivial bundle over the circle. Just a couple of comments, though:

It seems like a point like, e.g., [5/3xR] would be sent outside of (1/2,3/2)xR.


Also: would you give some insight into how the twisting ( at the point (1,0)) is "solved"?


Specifically, It just seems strange that we can have a diffeomorphism , given the


twisting at (1,0). Would you comment.?
 
Mmh, but 5/3 >1 while points of the bundle are of the form [t,x] with t in [0,1].

The idea of the construction of f is simply this: if you have a Mobius strip made of paper and if you take scissors and cut it "vertically" (this corresponds to removing the slice [{½}xR] in post #4 above), then there is no more "twist" as you can now take the remaining piece of paper and lay it flat on a table to form a rectangle: you have locally trivialized the mobius bundle. This is just what the map f does; it take ([0,1]\{½} x R )/~ and flattens it on the table (R^2).
 

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