Modeling with Differential Equations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the solutions to a specific differential equation, $y'' + y = \sin(x)$, and the application of Newton's Law of Cooling in a practical scenario involving a cup of coffee cooling in a room. Participants explore the mathematical properties of the differential equation and the implications of the cooling law, including initial conditions and the behavior of temperature over time.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose testing each function to see if it satisfies the differential equation by substituting into the equation and checking for identities.
  • There is a suggestion that the coffee cools most quickly when first placed in the room, as the temperature difference is greatest at that moment.
  • Newton's Law of Cooling is discussed, with participants noting that the rate of cooling is proportional to the temperature difference between the object and its environment.
  • One participant presents a detailed derivation of the cooling equation, expressing uncertainty about its correctness while another participant expresses confidence in the derivation.
  • There is a humorous exchange regarding the hypothetical temperature of a bunny in a scenario involving a monkey, illustrating a playful approach to the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the application of Newton's Law of Cooling and the initial conditions, but there is uncertainty regarding the correctness of the mathematical derivations and the specific solutions to the differential equation. Multiple competing views remain on the interpretation and application of the concepts discussed.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express confusion about using calculators for solving the differential equations, indicating potential limitations in understanding or applying the mathematical concepts involved.

ineedhelpnow
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#1
Which of the following FUNCTIONS are SOLUTIONS (meaning PLURAL) of the differential equation $y''+y=sin(x)$?
a. $y=sin(x)$
b. $y=cos(x)$
c. $y=\frac{1}{2}xsin(x)$
d. $y=\frac{-1}{2}xcos(x)$#2
Suppose you have just poured a cup of freshly brewed coffee with temperature $95^oC$ in a room where the temperature is $20^oC$.

a. When do you think the coffee cools most quickly? What happens to the rate of cooling as time goes by? Explain.

b. Newton's Law of Cooling states that the rate of cooling of an object is proportional to the temperature difference between the object and its surroundings, provided that this difference is not too large. Write a differential equation that expresses Newton's Law of Cooling for this particular situation. What is the initial condition? In view of answer to part (a), do you think this differential equation is an appropriate model for cooking?

Please Please help me. I have a test tomorrow and I really need to understand this stuff.
 
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ineedhelpnow said:
#1
Which of the following FUNCTIONS are SOLUTIONS (meaning PLURAL) of the differential equation $y''+y=sin(x)$?
a. $y=sin(x)$
b. $y=cos(x)$
c. $y=\frac{1}{2}xsin(x)$
d. $y=\frac{-1}{2}xcos(x)$#2
Suppose you have just poured a cup of freshly brewed coffee with temperature $95^oC$ in a room where the temperature is $20^oC$.

a. When do you think the coffee cools most quickly? What happens to the rate of cooling as time goes by? Explain.

b. Newton's Law of Cooling states that the rate of cooling of an object is proportional to the temperature difference between the object and its surroundings, provided that this difference is not too large. Write a differential equation that expresses Newton's Law of Cooling for this particular situation. What is the initial condition? In view of answer to part (a), do you think this differential equation is an appropriate model for cooking?

Please Please help me. I have a test tomorrow and I really need to understand this stuff.

A simple inspection shows that a [particular] solution of the DE $\displaystyle y^{\ ''} + y = \sin x$ is $\displaystyle y= - \frac {x}{2}\ \cos x$...

Kind regards

$\chi$ $\sigma$
 
A nickle for your thoughts on these problems.
 
i want to be able to use my calculator do these but every time i put it into my calculator i get a different answer.
 
ineedhelpnow said:
i want to be able to use my calculator do these but every time i put it into my calculator i get a different answer.

What do you get with your calculator?
 
$y=c1*cos(x)+c2*sin(x)-\frac{xcos(x)}{2}$
 
ineedhelpnow said:
$y=c1*cos(x)+c2*sin(x)-\frac{xcos(x)}{2}$

and in the case where $c_1=c_2=0$?
 
idk. i guess that would make sense. kinda.
 
For the first problem, you could try taking each given function, compute its second derivative, and then substitute the function and its second derivative into the given ODE to see it an identity results. :D
 
  • #10
what about the second question?
 
  • #11
Newton's Law of Cooling says the time rate of change of the temperature of the object is proportional to the temperature difference between the object and its environment, or the ambient temperature.

So, the change will be greatest when the difference is greatest, right? When is this?
 
  • #12
...wheeeen it's placed in the room? (Tmi)
 
  • #13
ineedhelpnow said:
...wheeeen it's placed in the room? (Tmi)

Yes, when $t=0$, because thereafter the object's temperature moves towards the ambient temperature, and so the difference, and hence the rate of change, will thereafter decrease. :D
 
  • #14
ineedhelpnow said:
...wheeeen it's placed in the room? (Tmi)

That was easy, wasn't it? ;)
How about the rest of the problem?
Any thoughts?
 
  • #15
no laughing or i WILL (Wait) kick you but here's what I am thinking. (Nerd)

$\frac{dT}{dt}=k(T-T_{monkey})$

$T'(t)=-k(T-20)$ and $T(0)=95$

$\frac{dT}{T-20}=-kdt$

$\ln\left({T-20}\right)=-kt+C$

$\ln\left({95-20}\right)=-k(0)+C$

$C=\ln\left({75}\right)$

$\ln\left({T-20}\right)=-kt+ \ln\left({75}\right)$

$\ln\left({\frac{T-20}{75}}\right)=-kt$

$\frac{T-20}{75}=e^{-kt}$

$T=20+75e^{-kt}$

did it based of another question i did yesterday but i don't know if its right...at all.
 
Last edited:
  • #16
It's right?! (Dance)
 
  • #17
ineedhelpnow said:
no laughing or i WILL (Wait) kick you but here's what I am thinking. (Nerd)

$\frac{dT}{dt}=k(T-T_{monkey})$

$T'(t)=-k(T-20)$ and $T(0)=95$

$\frac{dT}{T-20}=-kdt$

$\ln\left({T-20}\right)=-kt+C$

$\ln\left({95-20}\right)=-k(0)+C$

$C=\ln\left({75}\right)$

$\ln\left({T-20}\right)=-kt+ \ln\left({75}\right)$

$\ln\left({\frac{T-20}{75}}\right)=-kt$

$\frac{T-20}{75}=e^{-kt}$

$T=20+75e^{-kt}$

did it based of another question i did yesterday but i don't know if its right...at all.

I like it. I think it is all correct!
(Although I would write $\frac{dT}{dt}=-k(T-T_{monkey})$ to be consistent.)

Btw, what would be the temperature of the bunny? (Wondering)
(Need to be complete!)
 
  • #18
~1.5 degrees F. Because the monkey will DESTROY the bunny, therefore causing the bunny's temperature to drop to approx 1.5 F. don't take me wrong. I love bunnies but we all know the monkey is going to win.

- - - Updated - - -

View attachment 2780 or View attachment 2781

Newton's Law of Cooling states that the rate of change of the temperature of the bunny is proportional to the difference between its own temperature and hole in which the monkey is putting it in (due to loss of battle versus monkey).
 

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