Motorcycle vs Motorcar Race: Who Will Win?

[wolram]

We have all seen the exotic cars and bikes, i wondered which would be the
winner on a (twisty) circuit, my bet is on the bike.

Some specs on a top road bike.

http://www.dixonarchive.com/hayabusa/performance.htm

 

[Mech_Engineer]

We have all seen the exotic cars and bikes, i wondered which would be the
winner on a (twisty) circuit, my bet is on the bike.

Some specs on a top road bike.

http://www.dixonarchive.com/hayabusa/performance.htm

That's a tough call, because it depends on how "exotic" you want to go... Some race cars (F-1 for example) can pull more than 3 g's in a turn... Also, the faster the circuit, the more of a disadvantage a bike has because it is inherently less aerodynamic.

I would say bike, but not because they are more agile, because they are smaller and on the same course could take larger radius turns (closer to the edge), meaning entry and exit speeds could be faster. But, they would get killed in the straight-away.

 

[brewnog]

In my Seven (which has incredible amounts of grip, and isn't very heavy) I can corner faster than most sports bikes. They pull away quicker out of the corners though, and can brake later into them.

It would depend on the circuit.

 

[berkeman]

As ME says, an F1 car will beat even the MotoGP guys pretty much everywhere. But a $12,000 R1 stock superbike will generally beat everything up to about several $100,000 worth of high-performance sportscars. The Hayabusa in the link you posted is not generally as good as the R1 or GSXR1000 superbikes -- it's too heavy. The Hayabusa is the best at straight-line high speeds, but sportscars are good at that too, and probably better.

I tried looking at Laguna-Seca.com to see if they had posted the comparative lap times for Superbikes, MotoGP, F1, and other sportscar races, but didn't find it. Seems like I saw it once, and was totally amazed at what the F1 open wheel race cars could do. Wow!

 

[berkeman]

Oh, and I should also mention that it's important to keep the fast stuff on the racetrack and not on the public roads. For those of you like me who have fast sportbikes, use track days and racetrack riding classes (like classrides.com and starmotorcycle.com) to get your speed fix. The canyons and twisty roads are not good places to hang it out. I believe there are track days for many types of sportscars as well.

Mike
Honda CBR600F4
Buell XB-12R Firebolt

 

[turbo]

We have all seen the exotic cars and bikes, i wondered which would be the winner on a (twisty) circuit, my bet is on the bike.

It depends on the circuit and the machines involved. If you want to include Formula 1 cars with their large tire contact areas and great acceleration, it would be hard for the superbikes to come out on top, especially on the twisty courses where the F1 can carry more speed deeper into the turns, brake later, and accelerate hard on the exit. There is only so much torque you can apply to a bike without it getting really light in the front end, and you'd better be pointed correctly when it happens. VOE, here - I've only gone down twice in over 35 years of riding, and both times, it was due to unitentional wheelies on my Yamaha RD 350. I used to static-time and tune that bike often (shade tree mechanic) and sometimes would stumble onto a "sweet spot" that would broaden the torque band or shift it into an RPM range that I did not anticipate. The second unintentional wheelie happened downtown in front of the town's only bank at noontime on payday. I couldn't have had a bigger audience If I took out an ad in the paper.

http://www.sportscarforums.com/f11/ultimate-motorcycle-vs-car-thread-ever-10483.html

 

[wolram]

I waqs thinking, Road bike v Road car, i have looked for lap times but can
not find good comparisons.

Turbo, those screeming banshee's can be a *****

 

[turbo]

I waqs thinking, Road bike v Road car, i have looked for lap times but can
not find good comparisons.

Turbo, those screeming banshee's can be a *****

For road cars and road bikes, (street cars and street bikes in US parlance) the bikes win hands down. For a few thousand dollars, you can buy a bike with a power-to-weight ratio that far more expensive street cars just dream about.

 

[matthew baird]

On an autocross course I would say a car would murder a bike. I would like to see a rider attempt to maneuver through one and still pull a quick time. In this case the chances for mistakes are high, and since you would be on a bike that is easy to do.

 

[Stingray]

Here's a TV show which tests a bunch of cars and motorcycles at the same track (Anglesey in the UK):

http://fifthgear.five.tv/jsp/5gmain.jsp?lnk=401&featureid=68&show=s8e3&section=Shootout"

That article tests a Suzuki bike against a Westfield, but I wouldn't really call that a road car. A complete list of times for different vehicles is on the second page, though. It seems like bikes do pretty well.

 

[brewnog]

That article tests a Suzuki bike against a Westfield, but I wouldn't really call that a road car. A complete list of times for different vehicles is on the second page, though. It seems like bikes do pretty well.

Why wouldn't you call a Westie a road car? It's designed for the road, it's got street-legal tyres, brakes, lights and engine. Sure, you can build it into a track-only car, but you can do exactly the same with a Nissan Micra.

I've only taken mine onto a track a couple of times (ok money is a limiting factor) but I use it on the road every other day.

 

[Stingray]

Why wouldn't you call a Westie a road car? It's designed for the road, it's got street-legal tyres, brakes, lights and engine. Sure, you can build it into a track-only car, but you can do exactly the same with a Nissan Micra.

I've only taken mine onto a track a couple of times (ok money is a limiting factor) but I use it on the road every other day.

You own one of those? Very cool.

But I generally say that something needs a roof, windshield, and a few inches of ground clearance before I call it a road car. I'm fairly sure that it would not be legal in the US.

I really can't understand comparing a Westfield to a Nissan Micra... The Westfield is basically a track car designed for occasional road use (at least in some countries). In contrast, I doubt the Micra's engineers ever gave a single thought to its track capability.

 

[brewnog]

You own one of those? Very cool.

But I generally say that something needs a roof, windshield, and a few inches of ground clearance before I call it a road car. I'm fairly sure that it would not be legal in the US.

I really can't understand comparing a Westfield to a Nissan Micra... The Westfield is basically a track car designed for occasional road use (at least in some countries). In contrast, I doubt the Micra's engineers ever gave a single thought to its track capability.

The lack of a windscreen is an option, and roofs are available, and there's plenty of ground clearance; more than enough to clear speed bumps. Obviously it's been designed with track use in mind, but it's a road car! You can of course build one into a track or race spec, but my point was that you can do that with any car. They are legal in the US.

 

[Stingray]

The lack of a windscreen is an option, and roofs are available, and there's plenty of ground clearance; more than enough to clear speed bumps. Obviously it's been designed with track use in mind, but it's a road car! You can of course build one into a track or race spec, but my point was that you can do that with any car. They are legal in the US.

Ok, that's interesting. Now you've made me check out prices on one!

But I'm still skeptical about the ground clearance. The picture in that article makes it look very very low. I know I have to be careful with driveways in my Corvette, and it has much more ground clearance than that. Or is that just how it was set for the test?

 

[brewnog]

Oh it's the XTR, yeah that is pretty low! I hadn't seen the link and was talking about normal Westfields. The XTR is definitely a bit more track-oriented!

http://www.westfield-sportscars.de/DSCF0028.jpg this kind of thing.

 

[R Moore]

That's a tough call, because it depends on how "exotic" you want to go... Some race cars (F-1 for example) can pull more than 3 g's in a turn... Also, the faster the circuit, the more of a disadvantage a bike has because it is inherently less aerodynamic.

I would say bike, but not because they are more agile, because they are smaller and on the same course could take larger radius turns (closer to the edge), meaning entry and exit speeds could be faster. But, they would get killed in the straight-away.

Hello,

F1 generally is about 15% quicker around the same circuits. MotoGP has a slightly better power to weight ratio and so on many circuits accelerates faster. The top speed is similar with MotoGP bikes faster on a couple of circuits and F1 faster on 1 circuit. This is partly because F1 has a much higher corner speed and exit speeds are higher so even though the acceleration may be inferior they carry that exit speed advantage all the way down the straight. They can also keep the power on longer because they brake later than MotoGP and don't have to scrub off so much speed. The median speed is high plus the range is less. F1 has aero downforce and theoretically a car can drive upsidedown from 160 kph. Depending on the sircuit, down force is increased or decreased. On some circuits where high downforce is dialled in, the car reaches the aerodynamic brick wall at a lower speed than MotoGP. This may be as low as 280 kph wheas on the same circuit the MotoGP machine is reaching 310 kph. A 2005 F1 car, with all the downforce dialled out has reached over 417 kph. This car would probably spin out on the first turn it took.
MotoGP machines may exit a turn at 150 kph and reach 320 kph before braking. The F1 car may exit at 180 kph but reach 310. Certainly the F1 won't kill the bike in acceleration. More the opposite but I wouldn't call it kill. More like a bit quicker sometimes, even sometimes and slighty slower at other times.
Just to remind readers about the often overlooked distinction between quick and fast.
Quick = acceleration or lap times. Fast = velocity or speed
On the road the argument about which is quicker, car or bike, is often a secondary factor because cars and bikes have such high limits these days that there are few people that can extract their full performance potential. It's a case of driver or rider ability being the limiting factor. On the straight and from a standing start, bikes generally rule unless it is an unobtainable Supercar and a very long straight road. Yes aerodynamics favour the car but bikes have such tremendous accelaration that they are long gone before a car can wind out as they reach the next bend. Some testing has been done which showed that sports bikes had similar mid corner speed to sports cars and in some instances pulled higher Gs. Cars like the GT3 and Lotus Elise have superior mid corner speed and can brake later but this is more than compensated by the lightning acceleration of a 1 litre sports bike.