Movement of protons between orbital bands in the nucleus

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the hypothetical movement of protons between orbital bands in the nucleus, particularly in relation to their behavior compared to electrons. Participants explore the implications of protons gaining or losing energy and changing orbital bands, as well as the possibility of protons exhibiting behaviors similar to electrons in atomic structures.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions what would happen if protons had orbital movements similar to electrons, suggesting a potential for energy gain and loss.
  • Another participant expresses confusion about the concept of orbital movements and the specific orbital bands being referenced.
  • A participant introduces the idea of changing from permitted to prohibited bands, specifically referencing valence and conduction bands, and questions if protons could play a role similar to electrons.
  • One participant asserts that protons are bound to the nucleus by the strong nuclear force, unlike electrons, which are bound by electromagnetic forces, implying that protons cannot behave like electrons.
  • A hypothetical scenario is presented where electrons are attached to the nucleus while protons orbit, raising questions about energy changes and phenomena like the photoelectric effect occurring with protons.
  • Another participant emphasizes that electrons do not experience the strong nuclear force, suggesting that such a hypothetical atom could not exist.
  • Concerns are raised about the feasibility of the hypothetical situation due to the significant mass difference between protons and electrons, which affects their respective behaviors in atomic structures.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the possibility of protons behaving like electrons in terms of orbital movements and energy changes. There is no consensus on the validity of the hypothetical scenarios presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference concepts such as valence and conduction bands, but there is contention regarding their applicability to protons in the nucleus. The discussion highlights the differences in forces acting on protons and electrons, which remains unresolved.

SLSPS
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TL;DR
What would happen if the protons started to have orbital movements with energy gain and loss, changing orbital bands, at the same time as the electrons?
What would happen if the protons started to have orbital movements with energy gain and loss, changing orbital bands, at the same time as the electrons?
 
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All kinds of things. What is this about ?
 
SLSPS said:
orbital movements
Orbital movements where?

SLSPS said:
changing orbital bands
What orbital bands?
 
BvU said:
All kinds of things. What is this about ?
c
BvU said:
All kinds of things. What is this about ?
About changing permitted to prohibited bands. The valence and conduction bands. What I really wanted to know was whether the proton could play the role of the electron in that sense. If it would be possible.
 
I am sort of guessing at what you are asking.
Protons are bound to the nucleus by the strong nuclear force. Electrons are bound to the atom by electromagnetic forces. So no.
There are holes which are a positive charge carrying quasiparticle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_hole
 
GOT IT. EVEN THINKING ABOUT A CRAZY HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION: IMAGINE AN ATOM IN WHICH WHO WOULD BE ATTACHED TO THE NUCLEUS WOULD BE THE ELECTRON AND WHO WOULD BE ORBITING ARE THE PROTONS. COULD ALL PHENOMENA OF CHANGING ORBITS THROUGH GAIN OR LOSS OF ENERGY, OR EVEN THE "ELECTRIC" PHOTO EFFECT OCCUR IN PROTON?
 
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SLSPS said:
GOT IT. EVEN THINKING ABOUT A CRAZY HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION: IMAGINE AN ATOM IN WHICH WHO WOULD BE ATTACHED TO THE NUCLEUS WOULD BE THE ELECTRON AND WHO WOULD BE ORBITING ARE THE PROTONS. COULD ALL PHENOMENA OF CHANGING ORBITS THROUGH GAIN OR LOSS OF ENERGY, OR EVEN THE "ELECTRIC" PHOTO EFFECT OCCUR IN PROTON?
Electrons do not feel the strong nuclear force so you could not create a nucleus.
 
SLSPS said:
GOT IT. EVEN THINKING ABOUT A CRAZY HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION: IMAGINE AN ATOM IN WHICH WHO WOULD BE ATTACHED TO THE NUCLEUS WOULD BE THE ELECTRON AND WHO WOULD BE ORBITING ARE THE PROTONS. COULD ALL PHENOMENA OF CHANGING ORBITS THROUGH GAIN OR LOSS OF ENERGY, OR EVEN THE "ELECTRIC" PHOTO EFFECT OCCUR IN PROTON?
Please do not post in all capital letters in discussion forums like PF. It is considered yelling -- check your "Caps Lock" key status and turn it off.
 
SLSPS said:
About changing permitted to prohibited bands. The valence and conduction bands.
What valence and conduction bands are you talking about? Protons are in the nucleus. There are no valence and conduction bands in the nucleus.
 
  • #10
@SLSPS your crazy hypothetical situation that you put in all caps is impossible. Protons are 1836 times as massive as electrons. That's why electrons move about in things like metals and do chemical bonding and protons don't.
 
  • #11
thank you my friend
 
  • #12
A bunch of generally well-intentioned but off-topic posts have been removed. The Feedback forum is the right place for public discussion about PF norms when responding to ill-constructed posts
 
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