Moving Infinite Plate at a Constant Velocity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the velocity distribution of fluid flow around an infinite plate that begins moving at a constant speed. Participants explore the mathematical transformations involved in deriving the equations governing the flow, particularly focusing on the use of transformation variables and the application of the chain rule in differentiation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the transformation of terms (del u/del t) and (del^2 u/del y^2) using the variable eta, suggesting that the rearrangement does not yield consistent results.
  • Another participant explains that the chain rule for differentiation applies, providing the relationship between the derivatives with respect to eta and time.
  • A follow-up question is raised regarding the second derivative of eta, questioning why it results in the square of the first derivative rather than being zero, as initially thought.
  • Further clarification is provided about the use of partial derivatives as operators and how they apply to functions, with an emphasis on the constancy of certain terms during differentiation.
  • An example is presented to simplify the understanding of the differentiation process, illustrating the relationship between derivatives in a more straightforward context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the interpretation of the second derivative of eta, with some arguing it should be zero while others assert it is the square of the first derivative. The discussion remains unresolved regarding this specific point.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the transformation variables and the conditions under which the derivatives are evaluated. The participants do not fully agree on the implications of these transformations.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and professionals interested in fluid dynamics, particularly those studying the mathematical modeling of flow around moving objects and the application of differential equations in this context.

jhuleea
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Hi all!

I am required to find the velocity distribution of the flow around an infinite plate that suddenly starts moving with a constant speed U_o. The solution has already been worked out, but I still do not understand all of it. The part that is perplexing to me is where they use the transformation variable to rewrite the terms (del u/del t) and (del^2 u/del y^2) with respect to eta.

Simple rearrangement of the terms in eta certainly does not yield the equation in (del u/del t), although this is true for (del^2 u/del y^2). I would think that there would be more of a consistency?

Please help! Thanks!
 

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jhuleea said:
The part that is perplexing to me is where they use the transformation variable to rewrite the terms (del u/del t) and (del^2 u/del y^2) with respect to eta.

It's just the chain rule for differentiation

del u/del t = (del u/del eta)(del eta/del t)

and a similar equation for del^2 u/del y^2
 
AlephZero said:
It's just the chain rule for differentiation

del u/del t = (del u/del eta)(del eta/del t)

and a similar equation for del^2 u/del y^2

Why of course! Chain Rule, so elementary yet I didn't even consider it. Thanks!

This brings up one more question:

For (del^2 eta/del y^2), why is it that the answer is the square of the first derivative of eta instead of the second derivative of eta? That is,

(del eta/del y) = 1/(2*sqrt(nu*t))

=> (del^2 eta/del y^2) = 0


But according to the solution,

(del^2 eta/del y^2) = [(del eta/del y)]^2 = 1/(4*nu*t)
 
[tex]\frac{\partial}{\partial y} = \frac{\partial \eta}{\partial y}\frac{\partial}{\partial \eta}[/tex]

[tex]\frac{\partial^2}{\partial y^2} = <br /> \frac{\partial \eta}{\partial y} \frac{\partial}{\partial \eta} <br /> \left( \frac{\partial \eta}{\partial y} \frac {\partial}{\partial \eta} \right)[/tex]
 
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AlephZero said:
[tex]\frac{\partial}{\partial y} = \frac{\partial \eta}{\partial y}\frac{\partial}{\partial \eta}[/tex]

[tex]\frac{\partial^2}{\partial y^2} = <br /> \frac{\partial \eta}{\partial y} \frac{\partial}{\partial \eta} <br /> \left( \frac{\partial \eta}{\partial y} \frac {\partial}{\partial \eta} \right)[/tex]

I'm sorry, but I'm not familiar with your notation. For the expression for
[tex]\frac{\partial}{\partial y}[/tex], you used [tex]\frac{\partial}{\partial \eta}[/tex]. What function are you taking the partial (with respect to eta)??

Also, for your expression of [tex]\frac{\partial^2}{\partial y^2}[/tex], are you just restating what I had posted in my second question? I'm looking for why the partial of second order (that is, [tex]\frac{\partial^2 \eta}{\partial y^2}[/tex]) is not zero, but rather just the square of the the partial of the first order.

Thank you for your patience!
 
Last edited:
I was using [tex]\frac{\partial}{\partial y}[/tex] as an operator, that is something that can operate on any function.

If you don't like that standard calculus notation, then

Differentiate u once:

[tex]\frac{\partial u}{\partial y} = \frac{\partial \eta}{\partial y}\frac{\partial u}{\partial \eta}[/tex]

Then differentiate again:

[tex]\frac{\partial^2 u}{\partial y^2} = \frac{\partial \eta}{\partial y} \partial \left( \frac{\partial \eta}{\partial y} \frac {\partial u}{\partial \eta} \right) / \partial \eta}[/tex]

So, because [tex]\frac{\partial \eta}{\partial y}[/tex] is only a function of [tex]\nu[/tex] and t so it's just a constant when differentiating with respect to [tex]\eta[/tex]

[tex]\frac{\partial^2 u}{\partial y^2} =<br /> \frac{\partial \eta}{\partial y}<br /> \frac{\partial \eta}{\partial y}<br /> \frac {\partial^2 u}{\partial \eta^2}[/tex]
 
Last edited:
A simple example to cut out all the partial differentials, if they are confusing you:

Let y = ax, where a is a constant. Then dy/dx = a

For any function u(x), [tex]\frac{du}{dx} = \frac{dy}{dx} \frac{du}{dy} = a \frac{du}{dy}[/tex]

[tex]\frac{d^2u}{dx^2} = \frac{d}{dx}\left(\frac{du}{dx}\right) = \frac{dy}{dx} \frac{d}{dy}\left(a \frac{du}{dy}\right)[/tex]
[tex]= a^2 \frac{d^2u}{dy^2}[/tex]
 
Last edited:
AlephZero, THANK YOU!

Your explanantion with the example was amazing! I truly appreciate your patience with me, as I realize that my math is a little rusty (since I just started school again recently).

Once again, many thanks!
 

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