Multiple questions about eigenstates and eigenvalues

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around questions related to eigenstates and eigenvalues in quantum mechanics, specifically focusing on the time-independent Schrödinger equation for a ring and the relationship between angular momentum and energy observables. Participants explore the implications of eigenvectors spanning Hilbert spaces and the derivation of operators.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether the eigenvectors of multiple observables span the same Hilbert space, suggesting that the Hilbert space depends on the system being analyzed.
  • Participants discuss the solution to the time-independent Schrödinger equation for a ring, noting the boundary conditions and the resulting eigenfunctions.
  • There is a query regarding the application of the angular momentum operator on an energy eigenstate, with some participants expressing confusion about the relationship between these observables.
  • One participant asserts that in systems with zero potential, the energy and angular momentum operators are closely related, leading to similar eigenvectors.
  • Another participant clarifies the form of the Hamiltonian and angular momentum operators, discussing conventions and the implications for eigenstates and eigenvalues.
  • Participants note that the eigenbasis for angular momentum is also an eigenbasis for the Hamiltonian in this case, and discuss the degeneracy of energy eigenvalues.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between eigenstates of energy and angular momentum, with some asserting a connection while others remain uncertain. The discussion includes both agreement on certain mathematical formulations and ongoing questions about the implications of these relationships.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential misunderstandings regarding the application of operators to eigenstates and the dependence of Hilbert space structure on the specific quantum system being analyzed.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and researchers interested in quantum mechanics, particularly those exploring the mathematical foundations of eigenstates, eigenvalues, and the relationships between different observables in quantum systems.

Sebas4
Messages
13
Reaction score
2
TL;DR
Solving time-independent Schrödinger equation and find eigenvalues for observable angular momentum.
I have multiple questions about eigenstates and eigenvalues.
The Hilbert space is spanned by independent bases.
The textbook said that the eigenvectors of observable spans the Hilbert space.

Here comes the question.
Do the eigenvectors of multiple observables span the same Hilber space?

Here comes the other question.

I solved the time-independent Schrödinger equation for a ring with radius R, the potential is 0 and the boundary condition is that
\psi\left(\theta\right) = \psi\left(\theta + 2\pi\right).
The solution is
\psi\left(\theta\right) = \frac{1}{\sqrt{2\pi R}}e^{ik\theta} with k = 0, \pm1, \pm2, \pm 3 ....

The next question is to derive the L_{z} operator and find the eigenvalues for this operator.
I have derived the operator for L_{z} and it is
\hat{L}_{z} = i\hbar \frac{\partial }{\partial \theta}.
The answer book states that the eigenvector
of the angular momentum can be found by filling in the solution of the Schrödinger equation, so
\hat{L}_{z}\psi\left(\theta\right) = \lambda\psi\left(\theta\right) or
i\hbar \frac{\partial }{\partial \theta} \left(\frac{1}{\sqrt{2\pi R}}e^{ik\theta} \right) = \lambda \frac{1}{\sqrt{2\pi R}}e^{ik\theta}.
Why is this? (Why apply an operator of the observable angular momentum on an eigenstate vector of energy)?
The solution of the time-independent Schrödinger equation is an eigenstate of another observable and not angular momentum.
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Sebas4 said:
Summary:: Solving time-independent Schrödinger equation and find eigenvalues for observable angular momentum.

Why is this? (Why apply an operator of the observable angular momentum on an eigenstate vector of energy)?
How is it an eigenstate of energy ? What is your Hamiltonian ?
 
Sebas4 said:
Summary:: Solving time-independent Schrödinger equation and find eigenvalues for observable angular momentum.

I have multiple questions about eigenstates and eigenvalues.
The Hilbert space is spanned by independent bases.
The textbook said that the eigenvectors of observable spans the Hilbert space.

Here comes the question.
Do the eigenvectors of multiple observables span the same Hilber space?
The Hilbert space depends on the system. In this case, it's the Hilbert space of square-integrable functions on the ring. The different observables (in this case energy and angular momentum), then have bases that span this Hilbert space.
Sebas4 said:
Here comes the other question.

I solved the time-independent Schrödinger equation for a ring with radius R, the potential is 0 and the boundary condition is that
\psi\left(\theta\right) = \psi\left(\theta + 2\pi\right).
The solution is
\psi\left(\theta\right) = \frac{1}{\sqrt{2\pi R}}e^{ik\theta} with k = 0, \pm1, \pm2, \pm 3 ....

The next question is to derive the L_{z} operator and find the eigenvalues for this operator.
I have derived the operator for L_{z} and it is
\hat{L}_{z} = i\hbar \frac{\partial }{\partial \theta}.
The answer book states that the eigenvector
of the angular momentum can be found by filling in the solution of the Schrödinger equation, so
\hat{L}_{z}\psi\left(\theta\right) = \lambda\psi\left(\theta\right) or
i\hbar \frac{\partial }{\partial \theta} \left(\frac{1}{\sqrt{2\pi R}}e^{ik\theta} \right) = \lambda \frac{1}{\sqrt{2\pi R}}e^{ik\theta}.
Why is this? (Why apply an operator of the observable angular momentum on an eigenstate vector of energy)?
The solution of the time-independent Schrödinger equation is an eigenstate of another observable and not angular momentum.
In any system where there is zero potential, the energy and momentum (or angular momentum) operators are closely related. In this case:
$$\hat H = -\frac {\hbar^2} {2mR^2} \frac{\partial^2}{\partial \theta^2} \ \ \text{and} \ \ \hat{L_z} = i\hbar \frac{\partial}{\partial \theta}$$It's not surprising that they have similar eigenvectors.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: dextercioby
It should be
$$\hat{H}=\frac{1}{2m a^2} \hat{L}_z^2=-\frac{\hbar^2}{2m R^2} \partial_{\theta}^2, \quad \hat{L}_z=-\mathrm{i} \hbar \partial_{\theta},$$
where ##R## is the radius of the ring. The sign of the angular-momentum operator is, of course, a convention, but I've never seen another convention than the one with the minus. It's analogous to define the usual momentum operator as ##\hat{p}=-\mathrm{i} \hbar \partial_x## for motion along a straight line (or ##\hat{p}=-\mathrm{i} \hbar \vec{\nabla}## for motion in 3D space).

It's clear that the ##\hat{L}_z## eigenbasis is also an eigenbasis for ##\hat{H}## in this case, and they are simpler in the sense that they are non-degenerate, i.e., for each eigenvalue there's only one linearly independent eigenvector. The calculation in #1 is correct:
$$u_k(\theta)=\frac{1}{\sqrt{2 \pi R}} \exp(\mathrm{i} k \theta), \quad k \in \mathbb{Z}$$
with the scalar product of wave functions defined as
$$\langle \psi_1|\psi_2 \rangle=\int_0^{2 \pi} \mathrm{d} \theta R \psi_1^*(\theta) \psi_2(\theta).$$
The eigenvalues of ##\hat{L}_z## are ##l_z=\hbar k##.

The energy eigenvalues are
$$E_k=\frac{\hbar^2}{2m R^2} k^2.$$
As you see, only the ground state with ##k=0## is non-degenerate, while the energy eigenvalues for each ##k \neq 0## is two-fold degenerate.

The angular-momentum eigenstates are obviously a complete set of orthonormal wave functions since you can express any square-integrable ##2 \pi## periodic function in terms of these functions, which leads to the usual Fourier series,
$$\psi_k=\langle u_k|\psi \rangle = \int_0^{2 \pi} \mathrm{d} \theta \frac{\sqrt{R}}{\sqrt{2 \pi}} \exp(-\mathrm{i} k \theta) \psi(x), \quad \psi(x)=\sum_{k \in \mathbb{Z}} \frac{1}{\sqrt{2 \pi R}} \psi_k \exp(\mathrm{i} k x).$$
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: protonsarecool and PeroK

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K