The discussion revolves around the efficacy and necessity of multivitamins and dietary supplements, examining whether they are a waste of money. Participants explore various perspectives on their use, including potential benefits, marketing claims, and dietary sufficiency.
Participants do not reach a consensus on the value of multivitamins. There are multiple competing views regarding their necessity, effectiveness, and safety, with some advocating for their use under certain conditions while others dismiss them as unnecessary or potentially harmful.
Participants highlight the importance of individual dietary needs and the role of medical advice in determining the use of supplements. There are references to specific studies and articles, but no definitive conclusions are drawn regarding the overall efficacy of multivitamins.
More than half of all adults in the United States take some sort of multivitamin; many do so in hopes of preventing heart disease and cancer or even to aid with memory.
But an editorial published in this week's Annals of Internal Medicine says that using supplements and multivitamins to prevent chronic conditions is a waste of money.
They do make a difference if one is deficient, however, most in the west are not deficient.Greg Bernhardt said:I've taken vitamins and supplements during some periods and I admit, I can't tell the difference.
I do medication reviews and recommendations for people on multiple prescription drugs and I rarely (if ever) recommend them, unless blood tests show low levels (e.g. Vitamin B12, Vitamin D, etc.). There is little evidence for benefit for most people and some of the anti-oxidants like Vitamin E, beta-carotene, etc. likely pose more harm than benefit:Greg Bernhardt said:Are multivitamins a waste of money? Editorial in medical journal says yes
http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/16/health/multivitamins-studies/index.html
Very good articles bohm, thank you!bohm2 said:I do medication reviews and recommendations for people on multiple prescription drugs and I rarely (if ever) recommend them, unless blood tests show low levels (e.g. Vitamin B12, Vitamin D, etc.). There is little evidence for benefit for most people and some of the anti-oxidants like Vitamin E, beta-carotene, etc. likely pose more harm than benefit:
The myth of Antioxidants
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucbtdag/Wenner_2013.pdf
Enough Is Enough: Stop Wasting Money on Vitamin and Mineral Supplements
http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=1789253
What do you think about the suggestion that people at northern latitude should take vitamin D supplement to make up for lack of sunlight?bohm2 said:I do medication reviews and recommendations for people on multiple prescription drugs and I rarely (if ever) recommend them, unless blood tests show low levels (e.g. Vitamin B12, Vitamin D, etc.). There is little evidence for benefit for most people and some of the anti-oxidants like Vitamin E, beta-carotene, etc. likely pose more harm than benefit:
The myth of Antioxidants
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucbtdag/Wenner_2013.pdf
Enough Is Enough: Stop Wasting Money on Vitamin and Mineral Supplements
http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=1789253
There was just a thread about vitamin D supplements. https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=4610231#post4610231Pythagorean said:What do you think about the suggestion that people at northern latitude should take vitamin D supplement to make up for lack of sunlight?
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/vitamin-d/
I think it's recommended for infants, especially breast fed infants not drinking fortified formulas. Where you run into problems is people that start self-medicating without knowing if they have a deficiency or if they have a condition that makes taking a supplement potentially dangerous.Greg Bernhardt said:I know my sister gives her 6 week old vitamin D supplement.
We recommend them for people with osteoporosis and on bisphosphonates (e.g. Alendronate, Risedronate), people on corticosteroids and elderly women who rarely go outside and/or consume few dairy foods or if blood tests reveal low levels. But the evidence of benefit (e.g. decreased fracture risk) even for many of these individuals is surprisingly not very strong as noted in this review:Pythagorean said:What do you think about the suggestion that people at northern latitude should take vitamin D supplement to make up for lack of sunlight?
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/vitamin-d/
This isn't just about toxicity issues but about possibly wasting money for zero benefits (for most people in Industrialized countries, who are pretty well all the buyers). Many human studies have been done looking at the effects of taking a daily multivitamin and benefits have not been seen. Some studies even suggest possible harm:Johninch said:It is typical of animal toxicity studies to give high doses for a long time, in order to indicate the probably toxicity effects of low doses. Unsurprisingly, at high doses the rat develops problems and dies.
Dietary Supplements and Mortality Rate in Older WomenIn contrast, we found that several commonly used dietary vitamin and mineral supplements, including multivitamins, vitamins B6, and folic acid, as well as minerals iron, magnesium, zinc, and copper, were associated with a higher risk of total mortality...Although we cannot rule out benefits of supplements, such as improved quality of life, our study raises a concern regarding their long-term safety...We cannot recommend the use of vitamin and mineral supplements as a preventive measure, at least not in a well-nourished population.
"One of the obvious problems is that most large, clinical studies of vitamins have been done with groups such as doctors and nurses who are educated, informed, able to afford healthy food and routinely have better dietary standards than the public as a whole," said Frei, an international expert on vitamin C and antioxidants.
...
"More than 90 percent of U.S. adults don't get the required amounts of vitamins D and E for basic health," Frei said. "More than 40 percent don't get enough vitamin C, and half aren't getting enough vitamin A, calcium and magnesium. Smokers, the elderly, people who are obese, ill or injured often have elevated needs for vitamins and minerals.
"It's fine to tell people to eat better, but it's foolish to suggest that a multivitamin which costs a nickel a day is a bad idea."
Q_Goest said:They quote what appears to be an interview with Balz Frei, professor and director of the Linus Pauling Institute at Oregon State University
Regarding this editorial (note that it's an editorial, not a research paper), I thought the responces under the Comments tab were interesting. Three of them are from medical doctors, the fourth from an RN. One of the MD's is Balz Frei who provides a number of references as does one of the other MD's. All of the responces are arguing against the authors of the editorial.bohm2 said:Enough Is Enough: Stop Wasting Money on Vitamin and Mineral Supplements
http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=1789253
bohm2 said:And we always suggest that people get the vitamins/minerals from dietary sources instead of supplements, because supplements do not seem to show the same benefits seen with dietary sources.
I'm not familiar enough with this stuff but thought that was an interesting article. I'm sure there are plenty of quacky ideas out there. What I liked about Frei's interview was the suggestion that taking a $.05 vitamin isn't bad advice. If it works, great. If not, no harm done. You'll spend more than ten times that much on coffee every day. My only concern would be to find that vitamins might be detrimental to my health for some reason.AlephZero said:Hmm... didn't Linus Pauling have some rather crackpot ideas about vitamins - in particular vitamin C ? http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/pauling.html
What strikes me is that people wear cloths and spend most of their time indoors, so unless we lay out to get a tan, wouldn't the amount of D our bodies can manufacture be relatively small? Does that get addressed in the paper? I can't seem to find a way to open the paper...Pythagorean said:I don't know anything about Linus, but your scond from last sentence is what makes me wonder if there's some validity to D supplements for populations far from the equator. Our pediatrician made it sound like there was some science behind it and that D deficiency was typical in the extreme latitudes.
edit: here's the research:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18767337
They seem to find deficiencies in the winter months in people around the world in northern latitudes. 1/3 of young adults in Finland. In northern Europe, it was prominent in young adolescent girls with measurable effects on bone health. It cites several papers showing deficiencies in the elderly at northern latitudes.
Post the studies that say taking vitamin supplements is of "High" benefit. I haven't seen any.Monstrous Math said:I take multivitamins. The risk seems low. The benefits high. *shrugs*
Why do you think you need additional iron? Did your doctor do a blood test and find that you have an iron deficiency? It's not a common deficiency in men. I actually suffer from too much iron and it's killing me. Literally killing me, I have to give blood to try to reduce the iron in my body. Too much iron destroys the organs in the body, resulting in death. My doctor says it probably killed my father and other relatives because it wasn't diagnosed. I can't undo the damage the iron has already done, I can only try to rid myself of iron for the rest of my life to try to prevent further damage.Ivan Seeking said:One thing that I'm finding is that it is hard to get a full dose of iron each day, especially heme iron. You can get 100% of the RDA of non-heme iron from iron-fortified cereal but I can't eat cereals. Nor can I eat legumes. I try to get everything from vegetables, peanut butter, milk, meat, cheese and other low-carb foods. I do eat a lot of spinach but I was checking and it is doubtful I can get enough iron from regular foods... without significantly increasing my consumption of meat.
As this quasi religious belief in mega doses of vitamins seems to be rather an US peculiarity, I also tend to believe that it may be due to Linus Paulings influence.AlephZero said:Hmm... didn't Linus Pauling have some rather crackpot ideas about vitamins - in particular vitamin C ? http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/pauling.html
AlephZero said:And isn't the main natural source of vitamin D exposure to sunlight, not from food? The half-life of vitamin D in the body is 1 to 2 months, so you hardly need a "daily dose" to keep it topped up.