N-spherical coordinate angle intervals

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties and definitions of spherical coordinates in n dimensions, particularly focusing on the angle intervals used in these coordinates. Participants explore the differences between two-dimensional polar coordinates and higher-dimensional spherical coordinates, examining the implications of these differences in mathematical and physical contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why, in n dimensions, angles are defined from 0 to π, while in two dimensions, angles range from 0 to 2π, suggesting a special property of the two-dimensional case.
  • Another participant provides formulas for n-dimensional spherical coordinates, noting that the angles involved are constrained to [0, π].
  • Some participants discuss the implications of using angles in higher dimensions, suggesting that the need to account for signs in Cartesian coordinates changes from two to higher dimensions.
  • One participant proposes that allowing the second angle to range from [0, 2π) could describe coordinates of a torus, highlighting a distinction between the n-sphere and the torus.
  • A participant introduces the concept of direction cosines and discusses how they relate to the angles used in spherical coordinates, mentioning the constraint that arises from their definitions.
  • Another participant echoes the previous point about direction cosines and the symmetry in describing the n-sphere, noting that different methods can yield various coordinate representations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints regarding the properties of spherical coordinates in different dimensions, with no consensus reached on the underlying reasons for the differences observed between two and higher dimensions.

Contextual Notes

Some participants acknowledge limitations in their understanding of the mathematical implications of these coordinate systems, indicating that further exploration may be necessary to fully grasp the concepts discussed.

TubbaBlubba
This is a kind of silly-sounding question I never realized puzzled me until moments ago, when I looked up the algorithm for spherical coordinates in n dimensions.

In two dimensions, we have polar coordinates, consisting of r from 0 to ∞, and θ from 0 to 2π. In spherical coordinates, we have a third angle, from 0 to π, measured from the z-axis. Intuitively the reason for this is clear. So I wondered about n dimensions - is it the case that a 4-sphere requires an angle running only from 0 to π/2? Apparently not - all angles invoked for more than two dimensions run fron 0 to π. What in a mathematical sense, is special about the two-dimensional case that does not hold for higher dimensions?

I'm a final-year physics undergrad; I've taken courses in multilinear algebra, multivariable calculus, and complex caluculus, and I have a casual interest in topology and advanced geometry, but basically I do not have a good grasp of anything beyond the level of, say, Spivak's "Calculus on Manifolds".

EDIT: I realize this is somehow related to there being no straightforward 1d equivalent because you cannot account for parity in a continuous manner unlike higher dimensions, but that's as far as I get.
 
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The formulas (from Wikipedia) for n dimensions are:

##
\displaystyle {\begin{array}{lcr}x_{1}&=&r\ \cos \varphi \ \sin \vartheta _{1}\ \sin \vartheta _{2}\ \cdots \ \sin \vartheta _{n-3}\ \sin \vartheta _{n-2}\\x_{2}&=&r\ \sin \varphi \ \sin \vartheta _{1}\ \sin \vartheta _{2}\ \cdots \ \sin \vartheta _{n-3}\ \sin \vartheta _{n-2}\\x_{3}&=&r\ \cos \vartheta _{1}\ \sin \vartheta _{2}\ \cdots \ \sin \vartheta _{n-3}\ \sin \vartheta _{n-2}\\x_{4}&=&r\ \cos \vartheta _{2}\ \cdots \ \sin \vartheta _{n-3}\ \sin \vartheta _{n-2}\\\vdots &\vdots &\vdots \qquad \qquad \qquad \quad \\x_{n-1}&=&r\ \cos \vartheta _{n-3}\ \sin \vartheta _{n-2}\\x_{n}&=&r\ \cos \vartheta _{n-2}\end{array}}##

where the ##\vartheta_i \in [0,\pi]##. I don't think there are many applications for a physicist above ##n=3## but I'm not sure about it.
 
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fresh_42 said:
The formulas (from Wikipedia) for n dimensions are:

##
\displaystyle {\begin{array}{lcr}x_{1}&=&r\ \cos \varphi \ \sin \vartheta _{1}\ \sin \vartheta _{2}\ \cdots \ \sin \vartheta _{n-3}\ \sin \vartheta _{n-2}\\x_{2}&=&r\ \sin \varphi \ \sin \vartheta _{1}\ \sin \vartheta _{2}\ \cdots \ \sin \vartheta _{n-3}\ \sin \vartheta _{n-2}\\x_{3}&=&r\ \cos \vartheta _{1}\ \sin \vartheta _{2}\ \cdots \ \sin \vartheta _{n-3}\ \sin \vartheta _{n-2}\\x_{4}&=&r\ \cos \vartheta _{2}\ \cdots \ \sin \vartheta _{n-3}\ \sin \vartheta _{n-2}\\\vdots &\vdots &\vdots \qquad \qquad \qquad \quad \\x_{n-1}&=&r\ \cos \vartheta _{n-3}\ \sin \vartheta _{n-2}\\x_{n}&=&r\ \cos \vartheta _{n-2}\end{array}}##

where the ##\vartheta_i \in [0,\pi]##. I don't think there are many applications for a physicist above ##n=3## but I'm not sure about it.
Indeed. I mean, in two dimensions you need to use theta to account for the signs one both x AND y, whereas any higher-dimension angles only needs to account for the signs of whatever additional cartesian coordinate you introduce.

But it irks me, because I can't put my finger about what is so different about going from one to two dimensions beyond, "parity, continuity, something something something".

Spherical coordinates are useful because of the properties of the sphere being the set of all points a certain distance from some other points using the Euclidean measure, but this simply a set of two points on the real line. But what is so different about the real line compared to Cartesian coordinates that changes this? It seems so trivial, but I can't put my finger on it.
 
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I assume you meant the step from two to three (and higher) dimensions.
If we would allow the second angle to be in ##[0,2 \pi)## we could describe coordinates of a torus (if my intuition is correct).
And this points to the reason: ##S^2 \text{ sphere } \ncong S^1 \times S^1 \text{ torus }##. So the n-sphere isn't just adding spheres of lower dimension.
 
A more symmetric way to think of this is in terms of "direction cosines", which we sometimes call ##\mu_i \equiv \cos \theta_i##, where there are as many ##\mu_i## as there are axes; thus, for the ##n##-sphere, there are ##n+1## of them. Each direction cosine is the cosine of the angle ##\theta_i## subtended from the positive ##i##-th axis, and thus each ##\theta_i \in [0,\pi)##. But of course, these are too many coordinates to describe the ##n##-sphere! And it so happens that the direction cosines satisfy one constraint:

$$\sum_i \mu_i^2 = 1.$$
So, we can describe the n-sphere more symmetrically, at the expense of introducing an extra coordinate and a constraint. We can explicitly solve the constraint any way we like to obtain exactly ##n## coordinates, but this will break the symmetry.

The standard way to solve the constraint is to pick out two preferred axes, x and y, and then project down onto them to define the angle ##\varphi \in [0,2\pi)##. Then ##\varphi## and the remaining ##n-1## of the ##\theta_i## are a good set of coordinates.But there are many other ways to write spheres! For example, the 3-sphere sits in ##\mathbb{C}^2## described by the set of complex vectors

$$(z_1, z_2) = (\cos \vartheta \, e^{i \phi}, \sin \vartheta \, e^{i \psi}),$$
where the ranges of the coordinates are now ##\vartheta \in [0,\pi/2)##, ##\phi \in [0, 2\pi)##, ##\psi \in [0,2\pi)##.
 
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Ben Niehoff said:
A more symmetric way to think of this is in terms of "direction cosines", which we sometimes call ##\mu_i \equiv \cos \theta_i##, where there are as many ##\mu_i## as there are axes; thus, for the ##n##-sphere, there are ##n+1## of them. Each direction cosine is the cosine of the angle ##\theta_i## subtended from the positive ##i##-th axis, and thus each ##\theta_i \in [0,\pi)##. But of course, these are too many coordinates to describe the ##n##-sphere! And it so happens that the direction cosines satisfy one constraint:

$$\sum_i \mu_i^2 = 1.$$
So, we can describe the n-sphere more symmetrically, at the expense of introducing an extra coordinate and a constraint. We can explicitly solve the constraint any way we like to obtain exactly ##n## coordinates, but this will break the symmetry.

The standard way to solve the constraint is to pick out two preferred axes, x and y, and then project down onto them to define the angle ##\varphi \in [0,2\pi)##. Then ##\varphi## and the remaining ##n-1## of the ##\theta_i## are a good set of coordinates.But there are many other ways to write spheres! For example, the 3-sphere sits in ##\mathbb{C}^2## described by the set of complex vectors

$$(z_1, z_2) = (\cos \vartheta \, e^{i \phi}, \sin \vartheta \, e^{i \psi}),$$
where the ranges of the coordinates are now ##\vartheta \in [0,\pi/2)##, ##\phi \in [0, 2\pi)##, ##\psi \in [0,2\pi)##.
That is a very satisfying account! Thank you!
 

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