Nature of Electrons inside an atom

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of electrons within an atom, specifically in the context of the quantum model and Schrödinger’s theory. Participants explore whether electrons can be considered as waves or particles, the implications of probability waves, and the relevance of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about whether electrons should be viewed as waves or particles within an atom, referencing Schrödinger’s model and the concept of probability waves.
  • Another participant asserts that quantum mechanics describes electrons as exhibiting both wave-like and particle-like behavior simultaneously, citing interference patterns as evidence.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that categorizing electrons strictly as waves or particles is misleading, proposing instead that they represent a distinct quantum phenomenon.
  • One participant discusses the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, explaining that it implies statistical distributions for position and momentum measurements, but emphasizes the need for careful interpretation of its implications.
  • A reference to Richard Feynman’s perspective is made, highlighting the idea that electrons cannot be strictly classified as either waves or particles, but rather as something unique to quantum mechanics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the nature of electrons, with multiple competing views presented regarding their classification as waves, particles, or a combination of both. The discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of quantum mechanics and the potential need for deeper mathematical understanding to fully grasp concepts like the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. There is an acknowledgment of the limitations in how these principles are often communicated in various texts.

haisydinh
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Hi,

I am reading about the quantum model of the atomic structure, and recently encountered the Schrödinger’s model. However I am a bit confused about the nature of the electrons. Can we think of an electron a wave or as a particle when it is inside an atom? I know that in Schrödinger’s theory, an electron always has a probability wave associated with it. So does this fact suggest that an electron is a wave inside an atom? I don’t really understand why we need to have the probability waves at all though. I mean why can we never find exactly where an electron is inside the atom? Is it because of Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle?

Thanks in advance!
 
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Read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave–particle_duality

Read also about this iconic experiment:
200px-Wave-particle_duality.gif

Particle impacts make visible the interference pattern of waves.

This animated picture shows an interference pattern produced by particles hitting the screen one by on.
Although the dots that appear one by one suggest the existence of particles,
the interference pattern suggest particles behave like waves.

That's the basic fact of quantum mechanics.
There is nothing to understand there and there is no way to understand as a particle-only or wave-only behaviour. It is both at the same time.

Likewise, in an atom of hydrogen, electrons behave both as particles and as waves.
 
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Its best IMHO to put such images as waves, particles etc to one side. Its really none of those things - its quantum stuff.

What's quantum stuff? Check out:
http://www.scottaaronson.com/democritus/lec9.html

Actually I now think to start with it may be better to look at QM as an approximation to an even deeper theory - Quantum Field Theory. Many issues are easier to come to grips with that way:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004ULVG9O/?tag=pfamazon01-20

To really understand stuff like the Heisenberg uncertainty principle some deep math is required.

But just to explain it, what it says is if you have a lot of systems prepared exactly the same way and in half of them you measured position it will have a statistical distribution. In the other half you measure momentum and it will have a statistical distribution. The Heisenberg uncertainty principle puts bounds on the variances of those distributions. It says if you end up with a large variance in one the other can be small and conversely. It is also possible for both to have a 'moderate' variance. But both can't have a small variance. Some texts however are not so careful in how they state it.

Also note it follows from the principles of QM rather than being a principle itself.

Thanks
Bill
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Richard Feynman amused at it saying that it is wave on Monday particle on Tuesday etc.
He said it is neither wave nor particle but just quantum.
 

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