Navy or Air Force for Particle Physics

[Samuel Scarborough]

I have been interested in particle physics since I was in High School, but I have struggled to keep my GPA high enough to get me into grad school and I want to serve my country. I decided that the military was the best route to get the experience I needed. I would like to work with lasers to create and trap antiparticles for use as potential high efficiency fuel sinks. I am left with the decision of which military branch to choose and narrowed it down to two. Navy or Air force?

 

[berkeman]

Welcome to the PF.

Have you talked with the recruiters for those two services to see what specialties (MOS) they have available? I'm not sure that military experience will help you getting into a university later, or necessarily prepare you for a Physics curriculum. For Engineering, some of the specialties in the military can be pretty good experience (electronics technician, etc.).

How long do you plan to stay in the military? Your plan would be to attend university after you get out? Or are you considering applying to their military academies for your education?

BTW, I fixed a small typo in your post below. And you're welcome.

lasers to create and trap antiparticles for use as potential high efficiency fuel sources sinks

 

[Samuel Scarborough]

Welcome to the PF.

Have you talked with the recruiters for those two services to see what specialties they have available? I'm not sure that military experience will help you getting into a university later, or necessarily prepare you for a Physics curriculum. For Engineering, some of the specialties in the military can be pretty good experience (electronics technician, etc.).

How long do you plan to stay in the military? Your plan would be to attend university after you get out? Or are you considering applying to their military academies for your education?

BTW, I fixed a small typo in your post below. And you're welcome.

Thank you,
Q1. Not yet. Q2. Until I find another job, until I get through graduate school, or until I retire. I haven't decided, but those are the potential bounds of how long I serve in the military. Q3. It depends on how much I like the current military job, but If I get advised to I would shoot for graduate school at either their academies or at a university.

 

[opus]

In terms of the Navy, the closest thing I could imagine that youre describing would be a “nuke” as we call them. Entrance into the program is difficult, and the training is rigorous with a high drop rate. They are essentially technicians that monitor the nuclear reactors on submarines and aircraft carriers and are trained in hazardous material control. If you go this route, prepare to do very well on the ASVAB exam prior to enlistment, and be prepared to be deployed on submarines for a long time.
I did a lot of diving for the Navy for reactor related things so I am quite familiar with their jobs and although it seems like the closest thing that you describe, its still far from the mark.
A bonus, though, is that they tend to have huge reenlistment bonuses.

 

[berkeman]

I did a lot of diving for the Navy for reactor related things

Do you glow in the dark now, or has that worn off?

 

[berkeman]

to see what specialties (MOS) they have available

Oops, I guess MOS is an Army term (Army brat here).

Navy NEC information:
https://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/reference/nec/necosvolii/Pages/default.aspx
https://www.navy.com/careers

Air Force MOS information:
https://www.airforce.com/careers/browse-careers/

 

[opus]

Do you glow in the dark now, or has that worn off?

Cant tell. But I have evolved into a 72 dimensional being.

 

[Vanadium 50]

You need to do a LOT more research. Neither Annapolis nor Colorado Springs has a graduate program, for example. Both branches do, although they are Matsers-granting, but neither is sited at their Academies. What you describe is not what I would call particle physics (nor is it likely to be possible: antimatter and high-efficiency never go together). What you do in the service is determined by the needs of the service, and right now, particle physics research is not high priority. Could it be a great experience? Sure. Could you learn a lot? Sure. Is either path a first step towards being a particle physicist? Not really.

 

[jfmcghee]

When I went through ROTC very few students were allowed to go on and complete any kind of post-graduate education immediately after undergrad, I only met one my entire time (she was in meteorology). The point of the ROTC unit or military academy is to get you to the fleet. Unless you demonstrate some kind of unique skill set, they are going to assign you to a unit or squadron or ship and you likely won't use your degree until you get out.

 

[Samuel Scarborough]

You need to do a LOT more research. Neither Annapolis nor Colorado Springs has a graduate program, for example. Both branches do, although they are Masters-granting, but neither is sited at their Academies. What you describe is not what I would call particle physics (nor is it likely to be possible: antimatter and high-efficiency never go together). What you do in the service is determined by the needs of the service, and right now, particle physics research is not high priority. Could it be a great experience? Sure. Could you learn a lot? Sure. Is either path a first step towards being a particle physicist? Not really.

I am aware that it is part of particle physics, but not entirely (kind of like a subset really). That is my long-term dream, I wasn't expecting to be able to do it immediately, but I would like to do research/work on something that would increase my understanding of it. I also wasn't planning on going to graduate school for a while after I graduate. When referring to the efficiency I was referring to its release of energy as a viability for say an engine. I know that production of antiparticles (as of now) is very inefficient. Thank you for the feedback, it has been very enlightening.

 

[Klystron]

Oops, I guess MOS is an Army term (Army brat here).
Air Force MOS information:
https://www.airforce.com/careers/browse-careers/

Air Force (as of 1979 when I got out) uses Air Force specialty codes: AFSC.
A radar (enlisted) tech might have AFSC 303xN where x = technical proficiency level and N = subfield within "303" technical field.
NCO in charge of radar operations might have AFSC 30392 meaning highest technical level among radar techs with auto-track function knowledge.

 

[Klystron]

I have been interested in particle physics since I was in High School, but I have struggled to keep my GPA high enough to get me into grad school and I want to serve my country. I decided that the military was the best route to get the experience I needed. I would like to work with lasers to create and trap antiparticles for use as potential high efficiency fuel sinks. I am left with the decision of which military branch to choose and narrowed it down to two. Navy or Air force?

I admire your decision to place country (society) above your need to further your education. Depending on many factors including your preparation, test scores, other abilities such as language skills, but primarily the needs of the service, determine the experience you gain from enlisting. Air Force and Navy technical schools were mostly combined during my service time for courses such as electronics where the service missions either overlapped -- RADAR, weather forecasting, precision measuring equipment, avionics -- or where distinctions became advanced topics such as nucleonics and,as you say, particle physics.

I ended up declining positions at the USAF and Naval academies and a 6-year enlistment for reactors (nucleonics) in the Navy and a stint at DLI (Defense language Institute) instead taking the least prestigious but technically advanced job overseas during the Viet Nam war. My 18-year old self was inexperienced but persistent. While I learned a tremendous amount in the USAF and had the satisfaction of serving, the effect on my professional career was profound. Compared to peers who went to college instead of war, I was never able to cover the salary deficiencies.

The choice between services could come down to tradition -- shipboard life vs. gound bases, etc. -- but my guess would be that the USN offers more positions in your career field than the USAF. Note that both services usually require a BS degree before offering commissions.

 

[mpresic3]

Why not look into working at Naval labs or Airforce Labs as a civilian employee for DOD. Examine civilian employment at NSWC (Carderock, Crane, Dahlgren Panama City, etc.) (The Dahlgren website even says Einstein worked for them during the War. Dahlgren had the first computer "bug", it was actually a moth caught in a electronic relay. Dahlgren also had a record for calculating pi in the early days of computers) NASA is also an option. You are not likely to specialize in particle physics but there are challenging opportunities in mostly applied Physics. They may even allow you to pursue your higher education goals part time and while after a term of service (full time with pay) for a limited period. I know they did this several years ago.

These positions are also competitive and they require citizenship however. I suspect the armed services also requires citizenship though.

 

[MarneMath]

I served in the Army for a decade (infantry). I do not get the impression that you have done enough research. You don't stay in the military for every how long you want (ie until you find a better job or decide to go back to school) you stay for the 4-6 year contract that you signed. Also, I cannot for the life of me figure out any job in the Air Force or Navy that would really help you become an exceptional candidate for graduate school in particle physics after an enlistment period. Don't get me wrong, there are technical jobs but they tend to be rare and competitive and more applied in nature. Lastly, I'm rather unclear if your plan to enlist or try to join as an officer. If you enlist, you have to be somewhat cognitive of the fact that part of your job may be glorified mop pusher or copy maker for a few years. If you plan to go officer, the Navy and Air Force have very competitive application programs for officers.

With that said, I think my years of service have been invaluable to me. It taught me how to overcome physical and mental adversity, teamwork, difficult leaders, difficult followers, planning, organization, duty, communication, messaging, and responsibility. In other words, I learned a lot of soft skills that became useful in business.

 

[Zap]

I don't think you can do particle physics in the military. I tried to do the NuPOC thing, but they declined my application due to something on my medical record. I can't think of any reason to join the military other than to serve the country. If you want to be a physicist, you have to go to graduate school or somehow prove to the world that you are some kind of self taught genius.

 

[USAFA10s]

Hi, I am an Air Force physicist (AFSC 61D, Active Duty with the rank of Captain) - My advice is that if you have SPECIFIC interests, the Air Force is not for you. Even as an actual physicist, I have only a small amount of input into what I actually work on. The projects we do are driven by the national security strategy, national defense summary, and documents like the JOE 2035 (you can google these). As an Air Force physicist, it is more about being able to take on whatever the challenge is than have a narrow focus. It is the one area where physicists are expected to have a BROAD range of knowledge. If you want to be a technical expert in a specific area, you should look into being a DoD civilian scientist at somewhere like AFRL/RD (Air Force Research Labs, Directed Energy).

Most of the advice on here has been about enlisted roles, and as far as I know, the only enlisted Air Force job that would be remotely close is a 9S1XX, Scientific Applications Specialist, which is probably not quite what you are looking for but might give you a cool and valuable experience

I'm happy to answer any specific questions you have but it seems like this is probably not the path for you.

 

[Zap]

Hi, I am an Air Force physicist (AFSC 61D, Active Duty with the rank of Captain) - My advice is that if you have SPECIFIC interests, the Air Force is not for you. Even as an actual physicist, I have only a small amount of input into what I actually work on. The projects we do are driven by the national security strategy, national defense summary, and documents like the JOE 2035 (you can google these). As an Air Force physicist, it is more about being able to take on whatever the challenge is than have a narrow focus. It is the one area where physicists are expected to have a BROAD range of knowledge. If you want to be a technical expert in a specific area, you should look into being a DoD civilian scientist at somewhere like AFRL/RD (Air Force Research Labs, Directed Energy).

Most of the advice on here has been about enlisted roles, and as far as I know, the only enlisted Air Force job that would be remotely close is a 9S1XX, Scientific Applications Specialist, which is probably not quite what you are looking for but might give you a cool and valuable experience

I'm happy to answer any specific questions you have but it seems like this is probably not the path for you.

How did you become a physicist in the Air Force? Do you have an advanced degree? Did you apply to a specific program, or did they give you a special assignment after signing up? Also, did you enlist or pursue officer candidate school? I have spoken with Navy, Air Force and Army recruiters, and nobody mentioned the possibility of being a physicist while a soldier in the military.

 

[USAFA10s]

How did you become a physicist in the Air Force? Do you have an advanced degree? Did you apply to a specific program, or did they give you a special assignment after signing up? Also, did you enlist or pursue officer candidate school? I have spoken with Navy, Air Force and Army recruiters, and nobody mentioned the possibility of being a physicist while a soldier in the military.

I attended the Air Force Academy right out of high school. I majored in math and physics and put physicist as my first choice on my career list. I had a very good GPA and class rank and got the job I wanted. I was then picked up to get a PhD in physics on the Air Force's dime and completed that in 4 years, finishing in October 2018.

The Air Force is the only branch I know of that has physicists (we also have engineers, 62E, but I suspect so do some of the other branches) and it is only an officer job. Recruiters would likely have no idea it exists unless they worked in the acquisitions community in the Air Force. Other than the Air Force Academy, the second best route would be to major in physics at a school with AFROTC, crush it GPA wise (I'm talking very high, like 3.75+), and be lucky enough for there to be an opening. The final option would be to get your degree in physics on your own, then apply to OTS (Officer Training School) and hope there is a spot. Since OTS fills the "extra" Air Force fields, this option might be the trickiest, however, I think you get picked for a specific job in advance, so in that sense, it may be less risky. The caveat to all this is I had no guarantees of getting this job, I had to be willing to accept whatever I was handed - I just happened to get exactly what I wanted.

 

[USAFA10s]

You need to do a LOT more research. Neither Annapolis nor Colorado Springs has a graduate program, for example. Both branches do, although they are Matsers-granting, but neither is sited at their Academies. What you describe is not what I would call particle physics (nor is it likely to be possible: antimatter and high-efficiency never go together). What you do in the service is determined by the needs of the service, and right now, particle physics research is not high priority. Could it be a great experience? Sure. Could you learn a lot? Sure. Is either path a first step towards being a particle physicist? Not really.

This is mostly right, I just wanted to point out the Air Force Institute of Technology (AFIT, the Air Force's grad school) in Ohio and the Naval Postgraduate School (NPs, the navy's grad school) in California offer both MS and PhD programs, but their primary student base is active duty Air Force and Navy officers, not enlisted. Very very rarely, there will be one or two enlisted AF at AFIT, but definitely not majoring in physics.

 

[Zap]

I was told there wasn't anything related to physics by a few recruiters at a career fair. And applying to OTS in hopes that they will assign me a physics career afterwards seems like wishful thinking. That's why I concluded that the only reason I should be joining the military is to serve the country, instead of to advance my career, or something like that.

 

[grandpa2390]

In terms of the Navy, the closest thing I could imagine that youre describing would be a “nuke” as we call them. Entrance into the program is difficult, and the training is rigorous with a high drop rate. They are essentially technicians that monitor the nuclear reactors on submarines and aircraft carriers and are trained in hazardous material control. If you go this route, prepare to do very well on the ASVAB exam prior to enlistment, and be prepared to be deployed on submarines for a long time.
I did a lot of diving for the Navy for reactor related things so I am quite familiar with their jobs and although it seems like the closest thing that you describe, its still far from the mark.
A bonus, though, is that they tend to have huge reenlistment bonuses.

and huge, well-paying opportunities in the private sector if you don't reenlist. at least from what I hear :)
Wish I could join the Navy and do that program.

edit: I wish I could join the military period. Using my abilities for anything is a lot better than what I'm doing now.

edit2: anything that supports the growth of our country or mankind as a whole is a lot better. just to be clear. I'd certainly prefer to do what I do now to being a traitor ;)

edit3: my apologies if my post is not on topic, or doesn't add, or anything.

 

[Samuel Scarborough]

Thanks guys, I am graduating with a BS in physics soon, so I am going the officer route. I have a friend who is currently in NROTC, and I want to apply for the nuke program or the airforce physics position (I found old positron books made by the Airforce at school). I just don't know what'll help me more.