Need help taking partial derivatives

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around taking partial derivatives of a specific equation related to fluid dynamics. Participants are exploring the derivatives of the variable Q with respect to D, ΔP, ρ, and w, while also addressing the presence of other variables like C and β in the equation. The context includes challenges in differentiating an iterative equation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Paul expresses difficulty in taking partial derivatives of the equation Q with respect to D, ΔP, ρ, and w.
  • One participant provides a detailed breakdown of the partial derivatives for D, ΔP, and ρ, while noting that w does not appear in the formula, leading to a derivative of 0.
  • The same participant mentions the presence of C and β, explaining the complexity of differentiating with respect to β using the chain rule.
  • Another participant suggests treating variables not involved in the differentiation as constants, applying the chain rule accordingly.
  • Paul raises a concern about the iterative nature of the equation, questioning if there is a special approach for deriving partial derivatives in this context.
  • One participant proposes using implicit differentiation as a potential solution without needing to solve for Q.
  • Another participant reinforces the idea of applying differentiation to both sides of the equation, treating them as expressions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present various methods and approaches to taking partial derivatives, but there is no consensus on a single method or resolution to the challenges posed by the iterative nature of the equation.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of differentiating an iterative equation and the potential need for implicit differentiation, but specific assumptions or limitations regarding the variables and their relationships remain unresolved.

paul2001
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Hello everyone,

I am trying to take partial derivatives of the following equation and I am having difficulties. The partial derivatives are of Q w.r.t D, ΔP, ρ, and w. Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you.

Paul
 

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  • Airflow Equation.JPG
    Airflow Equation.JPG
    21.5 KB · Views: 543
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paul2001 said:
Hello everyone,

I am trying to take partial derivatives of the following equation and I am having difficulties. The partial derivatives are of Q w.r.t D, ΔP, ρ, and w. Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you.

Paul
The function is
[tex]Q= 5.9863 CD^2\left[\frac{\Delta P}{\rho(1-\beta^4)}\right]^{0.5}[/tex]

As a function of D, that is just D2 and the derivative of that is 2D.
[tex]Q_P= 2(5.9863) CD\left[\frac{\Delta P}{\rho(1-\beta^4)}\right]^{0.5}[/tex]

As a function of [itex]\Delta P[/itex], that is just [itex](\Delta P)^{0.5}[/itex] and the derivative of that is [itex]0.5(\Delta P)^{-0.5}[/itex]
[tex]Q_{\Delta P}= 0.5 (5.9863) CD^2\left[\frac{1}{\Delta P\rho(1-\beta^4)}\right]^{0.5}[/tex]

As a function of [itex]\rho[/itex] it is [itex]1/\rho^{0.5}= \rho^{-0.5}[/itex] and the derivative of that is [itex]-0.5\rho^{-1.5}[/itex]
[tex]Q_{\rho}= -0.5(5.9863) CD^2\left[\frac{\Delta P}{\rho^3(1-\beta^4)}\right]^{0.5}[/tex]

I do not see any "w" in the formula so the derivative with respect to "w" would be 0!

There is a "C" that you did not mention.
[tex]Q_C= 5.9863 D^2\left[\frac{\Delta P}{\rho(1-\beta^4)}\right]^{0.5}[/tex]

There is also a "[itex]\beta[/itex] in the formula. That's a little more complicated because the function involves [itex](1- \beta^4)^{-0.5}[/itex] and the derivative of that, by the chain rule, is [itex]-0.5(1- \beta^4)^{-1.5}(-4\beta^3)= 2(1- \beta^4)^{-1.5}\beta^3[/itex]
[tex]Q_{\beta}= 2(5.9863) CD^2\beta^3\left[\frac{\Delta P}{\rho(1-\beta^{12}}\right]^{0.5}[/tex]

Since this has nothing directly to do with differential equations, I am moving it to "Calculus and Analysis".
 
Just pretend that whatever variable you're not taking the partial derivative with respect to is a constant. For example if you're taking it with respect to B, just treat all of the other variables like constants, and differentiate it the way you would:

[tex]\sqrt{1 - B^4}[/tex]

using the chain rule since everything else is just a constant multiple that isn't going to be impacted by integration.
 
I have attached the same equation with the appropriate substitutions. The problem I am having is that the equation is iterative so I cannot simply take the partial derivatives without solving for Q. Is there a special approach I can use for this type of derivation? Thank you again.

Paul
 

Attachments

  • Airflow Equation 2.JPG
    Airflow Equation 2.JPG
    7 KB · Views: 500
Well, you don't have to solve for Q, you can use "implict differentiation".
 
Yeah, just put dQ/dwhateva on both sides and then take it like both sides were the expression.
 

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