Neither positive nor negative ?

[Mentallic]

Suppose we require, the men said with a -1, the woman says with a +1, then the three men, that is, 3 * (-1), the three women is 3 * (+1), may I ask, where the third is positive or negative ? Obviously, the three is not positive, not negative.

Positive numbers are defined to be real number greater than zero. A person is either female or male, you don't know so you can't determine whether it is 1 or -1, but this doesn't mean that it is neither. If you're talking about a neutral person that has no gender, then your example is too simplistic to accommodate for them, unless of course you define neutral people to be equal to... whatever you want.

 

[phya]

Absolute value of a number we have three answers to choose from, be negative, be positive, be neither positive nor negative. Why do we choose a positive number it? This is not injustice it?

 

[Mentallic]

What does "the number be neutral" mean? Please show me on a number line where this "neutral" 3 lies exactly.

 

[DaveC426913]

Absolute value of a number we have three answers to choose from, be negative,

-n

be positive,

+n

the number of neutral

Not neutral - zero.

- not positive, not negative. Why do we choose a positive number it? This is not injustice it?

Because x*0 = 0, which is not what we want.
And x*-1=-x, which is not what we want.
But x*+1=x, which is what we want.

 

[DaveC426913]

phya is simply talking about scalars versus vectors.

+3 on the number line has a magnitude of 3 and a direction of positive.

Magnitude is always positive. phya thinks of magnitude (which has no directional component) as if it should have no directional sign.

 

[phya]

Positive numbers are defined to be real number greater than zero. A person is either female or male, you don't know so you can't determine whether it is 1 or -1, but this doesn't mean that it is neither. If you're talking about a neutral person that has no gender, then your example is too simplistic to accommodate for them, unless of course you define neutral people to be equal to... whatever you want.

For a man or a woman, we can say that a person, while a person is neutral.

 

[phya]

This is the abstract.

 

[DaveC426913]

For a man or a woman, we can say that a person, while a person is neutral.

OK, so there's you answer.

What exactly was the question again?

 

[Mark44]

Absolute value of a number we have three answers to choose from, be negative, be positive, be neither positive nor negative. Why do we choose a positive number it?

Because that's how the absolute value function is defined -- it evaluates to a nonnegative number. The absolute value function maps

1. negative numbers to their positive opposites.
2. zero to zero.
3. positive numbers to themselves.

This is not injustice it?

Justice and injustice are totally irrelevant to the concept of absolute value. Why would you even think of it in these terms?

 

[phya]

OK, so there's you answer.

What exactly was the question again?

Sorry, I do not understand what you mean. Please note from another perspective.

 

[phya]

Because that's how the absolute value function is defined -- it evaluates to a nonnegative number. The absolute value function maps

1. negative numbers to their positive opposites.
2. zero to zero.
3. positive numbers to themselves.

Justice and injustice are totally irrelevant to the concept of absolute value. Why would you even think of it in these terms?

The previous provisions may not be correct.
On justice, the world is interconnected.
Newton's absolute space and time corresponding to the past, and Einstein's space-time corresponds to a relatively modern.

Oh. What is the meaning of absolute space and time? What is the meaning of absolute value?

 

[jgens]

What is the meaning of absolute value?

Absolute value is a mathematical function defined such that each input produces a non-negative output.

 

[Mark44]

The previous provisions may not be correct.

What previous provisions?

On justice, the world is interconnected.

This is a non sequitur that has nothing to do with absolute value.

Newton's absolute space and time corresponding to the past, and Einstein's space-time corresponds to a relatively modern.

This is irrelevant to our discussion of absolute value.

Oh. What is the meaning of absolute space and time?

This is a topic for a philosophy discussion, maybe.

What is the meaning of absolute value?

The absolute value of a real number is its distance from zero. This distance is always nonnegative (i.e., positive or zero).

 

[phya]

What previous provisions?
This is a non sequitur that has nothing to do with absolute value.
This is irrelevant to our discussion of absolute value.
This is a topic for a philosophy discussion, maybe.

The absolute value of a real number is its distance from zero. This distance is always nonnegative (i.e., positive or zero).

Oh, why a number of non-negative absolute value of it?

 

[phya]

What is absolute?What is absolute value? Which do not contact?

 

[Mark44]

What is absolute?What is absolute? Which do not contact?

?

 

[Mark44]

Oh, why a number of non-negative absolute value of it?

Please translate this into something that makes sense, preferably English. Be sure to include a verb.

 

[Mentallic]

Please translate this into something that makes sense, preferably English. Be sure to include a verb.

Even another language would be better than horribly broken English. Google translator would help me in the first case.

Seriously, phya, why are you so bothered by this?

 

[DaveC426913]

Oh, why a number of non-negative absolute value of it?

Again, if I may, I think the crux here lies in the fact that phya is seeing that absolute values are magnitudes should thus be unsigned, (since a sign such as + or - indicates a direction.

i.e. magnitude is the unsigned scalar property of a vector.

So, question: does it make sense to have a scalar with a sign, or is it simply an unsigned value?

 

[trambolin]

Everybody with questions like this should read

Lakoff, Nuñez "Where mathematics come from?"

Great book with a lot of cognitive understanding how things are progressing in mathematics.

 

[Mark44]

Again, if I may, I think the crux here lies in the fact that phya is seeing that absolute values are magnitudes should thus be unsigned, (since a sign such as + or - indicates a direction.

i.e. magnitude is the unsigned scalar property of a vector.

So, question: does it make sense to have a scalar with a sign, or is it simply an unsigned value?

Inasmuch as real numbers are scalars, and they can be negative, zero, or positive, yes it makes sense to have a sign with a scalar.

 

[phya]

?

Sorry
What is absolute?What is absolute value? Which do not contact?

 

[phya]

What is absolute?What is absolute value?

 

[Mark44]

What is absolute?

See any reasonably comprehensive dictionary.

What is absolute value?

This term is precisely defined in mathematics, and the definition has been given numerous times in this thread. Why are you still asking a question that has already been answered?

For a real number x,
$$|x| = \left\{ \begin{array}{l l}x & \text{if x } > 0\\ 0 & \text{if x } = 0 \\ -x & \text{if x }< 0 \end{array} \right.$$

Note that +x and x mean the same thing.

 

[JaredJames]

DaveC is correct, one of phyas problems is confusing scalars with vectors.

As an example, think of it as velocity vs speed:
north = +
south = -

+10mph = 10mph north
-10mph = 10mph south

What phya is doing is removing the direction sign (+/-) and simply looking at what is left, the 10mph. Which is a meaningless magnitude without an assigned direction.

In his case he has the direction which is either positive or negative and then the 'how much' (10, 20, 30 etc). This is where he is confusing things. He is removing the (+/-) and assuming the number left is meaningless, which is incorrect as many have pointed out, a number without a sign is simply positive (or neutral as the case with 0).

 

[phya]

See any reasonably comprehensive dictionary.


This term is precisely defined in mathematics, and the definition has been given numerous times in this thread. Why are you still asking a question that has already been answered?

For a real number x,
$$|x| = \left\{ \begin{array}{l l}x & \text{if x } > 0\\ 0 & \text{if x } = 0 \\ -x & \text{if x }< 0 \end{array} \right.$$

Note that +x and x mean the same thing.

Because this answer is wrong, it has been stepped asked.
Please answer here on the Absolute it.

 

[phya]

Again, if I may, I think the crux here lies in the fact that phya is seeing that absolute values are magnitudes should thus be unsigned, (since a sign such as + or - indicates a direction.

i.e. magnitude is the unsigned scalar property of a vector.

So, question: does it make sense to have a scalar with a sign, or is it simply an unsigned value?

Only the magnitudes of unsigned indeed exist.

 

[JaredJames]

Only the magnitudes of unsigned indeed exist.

Hate to be so blunt but you don't seem to accept the facts, this thread resembles the majority of perpetual energy discussions.

If it doesn't have a sign, it is positive (except 0). Period.

There is nothing to debate. You are confusing two different things (vectors and scalars).

 

[Mark44]

This term is precisely defined in mathematics, and the definition has been given numerous times in this thread. Why are you still asking a question that has already been answered?

For a real number x,
$$|x| = \left\{ \begin{array}{l l}x & \text{if x } > 0\\ 0 & \text{if x } = 0 \\ -x & \text{if x }< 0 \end{array} \right.$$

Note that +x and x mean the same thing.

Because this answer is wrong, it has been stepped asked.
Please answer here on the Absolute it.

This is not an answer; it's a definition. There's no point in discussing this with you if you are going to assert that a definition is wrong.

 

[JaredJames]

This thread has officially become the perpetual energy of maths. I say lock it.

 

[phya]

DaveC is correct, one of phyas problems is confusing scalars with vectors.

As an example, think of it as velocity vs speed:
north = +
south = -

+10mph = 10mph north
-10mph = 10mph south

What phya is doing is removing the direction sign (+/-) and simply looking at what is left, the 10mph. Which is a meaningless magnitude without an assigned direction.

In his case he has the direction which is either positive or negative and then the 'how much' (10, 20, 30 etc). This is where he is confusing things. He is removing the (+/-) and assuming the number left is meaningless, which is incorrect as many have pointed out, a number without a sign is simply positive (or neutral as the case with 0).

|speed|=velocity

|+10|=10
|-10|=10
|10|=10

 

[Char. Limit]

|speed|=velocity

|+10|=10
|-10|=10
|10|=10

Huh?

$$|\vec{v}|=s$$

The absolute value of speed is not velocity. The absolute value of velocity is speed.

 

[jgens]

|+10|=10
|-10|=10
|10|=10

Right, and each value that you posted above is positive. That's what the absolute value does; that's how it's defined.

Since you seem to be convinced that there are unsigned real numbers (other than zero), do you mind constructing such a system?

 

[JaredJames]

|speed|=velocity

|+10|=10
|-10|=10
|10|=10

No, |velocity|= speed.

If you read my example, this is exactly what I showed. By removing the sign you end up with a meaningless scalar magnitude when talking about velocity.

Note that all the speed magnitudes of 10 are positive.

This is NOT the same as your number example. Taking the absolute values makes them all positive (with the exception of zero). They are not scalars so you cannot compare them to that scenario.

 

[Mentallic]

Phya here's a thought, get over this topic, and learn some real maths.