Neutrino speed thread moderation

  1. Vanadium 50

    Vanadium 50 17,442
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    I have just done a massive cleanup of this thread.

    I removed hundreds of messages that were either:

    • Overly speculative
    • Off-topic
    • Repeats of points previously raised.
    • Discussions of the "is not! is too!" variety.
  2. jcsd
  3. Re: CERN team claims measurement of neutrino speed >c

    Do you completely deleted other messages, or put them in some kind of archive?
    Personally I intended to copy all of them, because most of them contain some interesting points and simply deleting is not wise.

    Unfortunately, I do not know how to do it at ones: thread tools "Show Printable version" shows only current page and saving 74 pages requires huge amount of time, which I don't have. If you know how to do this pls explain.

    Actually, I do not agree with you, there were no much "speculations" in this thread. And even the results of neutrino speed wasn't originally published in peer-reviewed journals, this, if it will be proven (!), is definitely Nobel's prize result. Chance for this is low (personally my opinion!), but the discussions of such challenging experiments are very useful for a new generation of physicists.
  4. Re: CERN team claims measurement of neutrino speed >c

    Massive deletion is definitively a lack of respect for all those people who contributed with good faith to the discussion.
  5. Re: CERN team claims measurement of neutrino speed >c

    I am gobsmacked by the arrogance of the moderators here. At the very least an archive should have been created. Some minimal warning would also have been a COMMON COURTESY. There are a number of posts that I want to download and study. There is plenty of real talent amongst the contributors where a useful synopsis of the discussion could have been made to replace the lengthy thread, and I am sure there are plenty of talented people here capable of making one. Your actions are a disgrace and you have just alienated a large proportion of your target audience, if indeed you have any idea what that is.
  6. Borek

    Staff: Mentor

    Re: CERN team claims measurement of neutrino speed >c

    Read through what was left, comment later. Most of the discussion was off topic and consisted of constant repetition of the same questions and answers over and over again, not to mention cranky comments. Many users were criticizing us for leaving too much of those posts untouched. Apparently it is impossible to please everyone.

    Deleted posts are still in the database, they were not deleted permanently.
  7. Re: CERN team claims measurement of neutrino speed >c

    Un-lurking to say thank you for removing the crackpots and others. This is a serious science site after all, and it's hard to read and learn stuff if the signal to noise ratio is too high. Of course now the mods have to delete this too for being offtopic, but that's fine. I just want them to know at least some of us support them on this.
  8. Re: CERN team claims measurement of neutrino speed >c

    I completely agree, Kaonyx. They have managed to irritate a lot of readers, and has caused that many people won't post anymore. It is my personal decision that I will not contribute with any more Physics commentaries. And rorix_bw, if you call me crackpot by proposing a common sense idea which may be legitimate, well, it is your right, as well as it is my right to say that the publicity mass media circus of CERN-Gran Sasso is so red-facing that if the results are disproved, any CERN funding should be removed immediately. We are involved in a serious economical crisis, and we don't need to waste money on people who don't know how to measure a distance.
  9. Re: CERN team claims measurement of neutrino speed >c

    Actually I relish problems with broken software systems, they represent an opportunity for something better. As a software developer and designer, this episode (and others I have experienced here) lead me to suggest that the PF model is in fact badly broken. It all needs to be brought forward into the 21st century. Even a kind of Wiki associated with a discussion, that summarises the progress of the discussion, on an ongoing basis would be an improvement, so that when somebody finds the thread, the first thing could then do is to go to the wiki to catchup. Moderators need clear job descriptions, which are plainly lacking at present. Contributors need some way of declaring themselves wrt their background and knowledge. The value of participating in a highly technical discussion is immense from an educational perspective, and I think contributors would be happy to declare themselves if there was a mechanism. I am reminded of the world of chess where grandmasters coexist happily with wood-pushers without this antagonistic atmosphere. Beginners are always encouraged and mentored, not dismissed and ridiculed. I would be happy to know how much credibility to give to a posting.
    A mechanism of peer moderation by other members would operate by tagging posts wrt the wiki. This old fashioned vBulletin system needs a bit of social engineering, there are good models for voting posts up in rankings, or liking them etc. In short anything would be infinitely preferable to the current autocratic censorship model that devalues the educational process.
  10. DevilsAvocado

    DevilsAvocado 1,665
    Gold Member

    Re: CERN team claims measurement of neutrino speed >c

    The easiest way is maybe to print or save anything you find important at once, nothing is forever (they say).

    However if there’s a post where you remember some of the content and/or username, it should be fairly easy for you to obtain that thru Google Cache. Use this search: "Re: CERN team claims measurement of neutrino speed >c" [username] [content]

    And then click on the link Cached (under the 'main link' in the result). Voila!

    Now maybe your friend deuticomet could also calm down a bit... :smile:
  11. turbo

    turbo 7,366
    Gold Member

    Re: CERN team claims measurement of neutrino speed >c

    You can delete mine, as well, especially since the OP was drawn from the popular press with NO detailed analysis. Of course that would leave me ineligible for the fabulous cash prizes.

    I sound like Rain Man.
  12. PAllen

    PAllen 5,396
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Re: CERN team claims measurement of neutrino speed >c

    I hope there is some way to memorialize "A Brief History of Mite" with accompanying picture. I see it is gone. Funniest post in all pf PF that I've seen so far.
  13. PAllen

    PAllen 5,396
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Re: CERN team claims measurement of neutrino speed >c

    I was about to suggest wayback machine, but for some reason it has not crawled PF since July of this year.
  14. Re: CERN team claims measurement of neutrino speed >c

    By the way, if the moderators have the right to massively delete our posts,
    do we have, by reciprocity, the right to remove our own posts, or are they the property of the PF?
  15. Re: CERN team claims measurement of neutrino speed >c

    From PF rules:
    "Neither member accounts nor a member's posts will be deleted on demand. It is up to the discretion of the forum owners and admins. Posts are for everyone's benefit and should be thought of as permanent."
    Borek, you seemed to imply that the massive deletion had been performed due to users complains (including mentors), IOW, on demand. I'm not sure that agrees with PF rules as they are written.
  16. Borek

    Staff: Mentor

    Re: CERN team claims measurement of neutrino speed >c

    It wasn't on demand. People were complaining about the discussion in general, not about single posts (although some posts were reported as they were breaking forum rules - but these were deleted on the fly, not now).

    PF is what it is because of the moderating policies enforced, not despite of the moderating policy.

    GPS accuracy discussion was started several times, and each time it was repeating the same arguments ad nauseam.

    Sagnac effect was mentioned early in the thread and estimated as way too low to explain 60 ns difference. It didn't stop identical discussion to repeat over and over again.

    There were many more similar problems.

    What Vanadium did was aimed at cleaning the discussion from repeated claims and explanations and from off topic side discussions which made the thread impossible to follow.

    Please note this discussion is again off topic - I am going to move OT posts to Feedback subforum.
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2011
  17. jtbell

    Staff: Mentor

    [Borek finished his reply before I did.]

    That rule was intended to apply to people asking us to remove their own posts. We have a special problem with this in the homework help forums, because people sometimes ask us to remove their questions and the answers that they have gotten, perhaps because they don't want their classmates to see them, or they were cheating on a test.

    In general, people may request that posts be deleted. It is solely up to us to decide whether to actually do it (unless of course Greg gets a court order or something :smile:). And we reserve the right to clean up redundant, distracting and inappropriate posts in this manner, on our own initiative.
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2011
  18. DevilsAvocado

    DevilsAvocado 1,665
    Gold Member

    Just for the record:
    [my bolding]
  19. DevilsAvocado

    DevilsAvocado 1,665
    Gold Member

    Re: CERN team claims measurement of neutrino speed >c

    Thanks PAllen!

    Nothing is forever but a good laugh. :smile:

    The machine is probably banned by some very cruel moderator... :grumpy:

  20. Borek

    Staff: Mentor

    Re: CERN team claims measurement of neutrino speed >c

    Sep28-11, 12:29 PM - that's the information that will help to dig the post in future, without a need to read everything again.
  21. micromass

    micromass 18,537
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor

    The moderators have made a very good decision on this. It will keep the discussion scientific and academic. Repeating the same arguments in a thread is simply annoying.
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