Newton's Method- finding only positive zeros

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of Newton's Method for finding positive zeros of a highly nonlinear, non-analytic equation. Participants explore various strategies and considerations for ensuring that only positive solutions are obtained, while acknowledging the limitations of the method.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about extensions to Newton's Method that can restrict solutions to positive zeros.
  • Another suggests starting with a point greater than any positive root to potentially find the desired solution.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the ability of any method to guarantee finding a positive root.
  • It is noted that Newton's Method will find the root closest to the starting point, but this may not be the desired positive root.
  • Several strategies are proposed, including trying multiple starting points and plotting the function to identify approximate roots.
  • References are made to optimization methods with inequality constraints and specific methods like Brent's Method and a random sampling approach to narrow down potential roots.
  • One participant corrects a previous claim about the behavior of Newton's Method regarding the proximity of solutions to starting points.
  • Additional techniques are discussed, such as taking partial Newton steps or using Halley's method to increase the likelihood of finding the nearest root.
  • It is suggested that preliminary methods like sign change detection or bisection could help locate roots before applying Newton's Method.
  • Concerns are raised about the continuity of the function and the necessity of derivatives for applying Newton's Method effectively.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the effectiveness and guarantees of Newton's Method in finding positive roots. There is no consensus on a definitive approach, and multiple competing views remain on how best to tackle the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of initial conditions and the potential need for additional constraints or methods to ensure convergence to a positive root. Limitations regarding the continuity of the function and the requirement for derivatives are also noted.

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I have a situation where I am using Newton's Method to solve a highly nonlinear, non-analytic equation with both positive and negative zeros. My situation requires that only positive zeros be found. Does anyone know any extensions to NM to restrict the solutions to greater than zero?

Thanks.
 
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Suppose you were to chose a starting point greater than any +ve root?
 
As far as I know there is no method that can guarantee anything.
 
I agree with both comments already posted. Pure Newton's method, if it finds a solution (not guaranteed to find one), will find the one closest to the starting point, which isn't necessarily the desired one.

Having said that, there are things you can potentially do, depending on the details of the specific problem you have. One is to try several different starting points and hope that you'll eventually find one that produces the result you want. If the problem has only 1 variable, it should be straightforward to plot f(x) vs x and graphically (or analytically) find an approximate root that you want, and use it as a starting point in Newton's Method.

I believe there is a fair body of publication material on the general topic of optimization with inequality constraints (i.e. minimize f(x) where x >= 0). There might be similar info on finding zeros of functions, I really don't know much about them.

A couple of methods I'm aware of are based on a user defined range for the solution. One is Brent's Method:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brent's_method

Another is a random method, where f(x) is calculated for randomly generated values for x (within user specified limits), ranked according to value of f(x), a new range defined from the ranking, then repeat.

In both cases, the result could be used as a starter for Newton's Method, but does require you to specify an upper bound on the solution (lower bound would be zero), which may not be straightfoward.
 
Last edited:
hotvette said:
Pure Newton's method, if it finds a solution (not guaranteed to find one), will find the one closest to the starting point

I don't think so.

Newton.png


Starting point x, yet solution found is x1, not x0. You need additional conditions for the statement to be true.
 
Borek said:
I don't think so.

Ah, right you are. I stand corrected.
 
You're welcome :wink:
 
To elaborate on Borek's comment, you can take additional steps to increase the odds of finding the root nearest to the starting point. One option is to take partial Newton steps, that is, use xi+1 = xi - mu*f/f', where mu is between 0 and 1. The smaller mu is, the more steps are needed to converge, but the less likely to miss the nearest root.

Another option would be to use a higher order method such as Halley's method that utilizes the 2nd derivative as well as the first derivative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halley's_method
 

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It is usual to roughly locate the roots, eg by sign change and perhaps bisection, before embarking on any refinement method, such as Newton's.

You haven't told us about your function or even if it is continuous as you require derivatives for N.

If you can get close enough to the root to start with real world functions will, in general, converge.
So if the distance between the greatest root and X0 is halved N would indeed converge to it.

I am aware that it is always possible to construct counter examples, but you should stake out your territory beforehand.
 

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