Nitrogen Respiration: What Lifeforms Could Be Like

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores hypothetical lifeforms that utilize nitrogen in their biological processes, particularly in respiration and metabolism. Participants consider the implications of nitrogen as a blood transport molecule and its potential roles in energy extraction, as well as the characteristics of such organisms.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions what a lifeform would be like if it carried nitrogen in its blood instead of oxygen.
  • Another participant argues that nitrogen is a poor oxidizing agent and suggests that an organism relying on nitrogen for energy production would be inefficient or nonviable.
  • A participant speculates that if such a lifeform existed, it might be exceedingly slow-moving.
  • There is a proposal for a lifeform with a hemoglobin equivalent that incorporates nitrogen but still metabolizes oxygen.
  • One participant introduces the idea of nitrogen-based skin pigments and raises a question about spontaneous combustion under UV light.
  • A participant notes that nitrogen atoms are part of hemoglobin, emphasizing their role in binding iron for oxygen transport.
  • Another participant clarifies their idea of a hemoglobin equivalent with more nitrogen and less carbon.
  • Questions are raised about the existence of chemical groups that could act as effective oxidizers in sunlight, suggesting that such organisms might need to be nocturnal.
  • Further discussion highlights the need for any proposed compound to be readily available in the environment and questions the relationship between sunlight reactivity and nocturnal behavior.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the viability of nitrogen-based lifeforms and their metabolic processes. There is no consensus on the characteristics or existence of such organisms, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexities of metabolic pathways and the stability of nitrogen as a molecule, but there are unresolved assumptions regarding the feasibility of nitrogen-based respiration and the environmental conditions required for such lifeforms.

Katamari
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What would a lifeform that carried nitrogen in blood instead of oxygen be like?
 
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Our blood has specialized proteins to transport oxygen because oxygen is a critical molecule in our metabolism. Specifically, oxygen acts as an oxidizing agent, allowing our cells to extract energy from the chemical oxidation of fuel molecules such as carbohydrates and fat. In essence, we can gain energy from burning these fuel molecules because the transfer of electrons from the fuel molecules to oxygen is a thermodynamically favorable process and releases energy.

Nitrogen, on the other hand, is a very poor oxidizing agent. Whereas transferring electrons to oxygen to produce water is a favorable process that releases energy, transferring electrons to nitrogen to produce ammonia is an unfavorable process that requires energy. Part of the reason why it is unfavorable to transfer electrons to nitrogen is that nitrogen is a very stable molecule held together by a very strong triple bond.

Therefore, an organism that carries nitrogen in its blood instead of oxygen would be dead (or at least very inefficient at producing energy) because it could not use some of the most efficient metabolic pathways for producing energy from food.
 
So any living ones would be exceedingly slow moving? What about a life form with nitrogen a critical part in it's hemoglobin equivalent? Still metabolising oxygen, but using nitrogen as a carrier.
 
A thought occurred- nitrogen based skin pigment.
Spontaneous combustion in UV?
 
Nitrogen atoms (not the N2 molecules in air) are a critical part of hemoglobin. In addition to being a required part of any protein in the body, nitrogen atoms in the heme group of hemoglobin are involved in binding the iron ion. The iron is, of course, the critical part of hemoglobin which allows it to carry oxygen.
 
I meant a hemoglobin equivalent with a lot more nitrogen and less carbon.
 
Okay then, different question. Is there any chemical group (Amines, nitrophenols, fluorocarbons etc) that acts as an effective oxidiser and will react in sunlight, forcing these hypothetical creatures to be nocturnal.
 
Katamari said:
Okay then, different question. Is there any chemical group (Amines, nitrophenols, fluorocarbons etc) that acts as an effective oxidiser and will react in sunlight, forcing these hypothetical creatures to be nocturnal.

To be used by organisms as an efficient method of extracting energy, the compound has to be readily available in the creature's local environment.

In addition, if the compound is reactive in sunlight with some other atmospheric gas, it would only exist, if at all, in perpetually dark places (such as deep mountain caves).

Even if you do find such a thing, how does its tendency to react under sunlight have any relation to its holder being nocturnal? I hope you are aware that respiration is a constant process; organisms need energy to live, be it day or night.
 

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