No r dependence in L operator?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the apparent absence of radial dependence in the angular momentum operator in quantum mechanics (QM) compared to its classical counterpart, where angular momentum is defined as L = r x p. Participants explore the implications of this difference, questioning the physical reasoning behind the vanishing of r in the quantum formulation, particularly in spherical coordinates.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that in classical mechanics, angular momentum depends on r, while the QM angular momentum operator does not explicitly include r, leading to questions about the physical interpretation of this difference.
  • One participant suggests that the r dependence might be embedded in the wavefunction, although they express uncertainty about this idea.
  • Another participant points out that the eigenstates of the angular momentum operator are spherical harmonics, which depend only on angles theta and phi, raising further questions about the role of r.
  • Some participants mention that in the case of a central potential, such as the hydrogen atom, the separation of variables allows for a clearer distinction between radial and angular components.
  • There is a suggestion that for a free particle, the angular momentum is constant and not dependent on r, prompting further discussion about the implications of this for the operator's formulation.
  • One participant emphasizes that any quantum system will have a Hamiltonian and potential, suggesting that discussing the operator without specifying the potential may not be meaningful.
  • Another participant highlights that the angular momentum operator obeys specific commutation relations, which are consistent with its mathematical formulation, but questions remain about the absence of r in the operator itself.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views regarding the absence of r in the angular momentum operator, with no consensus reached. Some agree on the mathematical formulation while others question the physical implications and seek deeper understanding.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about the nature of quantum systems, the role of potentials, and the interpretation of mathematical formulations. Participants acknowledge the complexity of the topic and the potential limitations of their understanding.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to students and professionals in physics, particularly those focused on quantum mechanics, angular momentum, and the mathematical foundations of these concepts.

  • #31
DoobleD said:
I find it surprising that the r dependency vanishes. How can we explain this physically ?
A simple heuristic argument is to use the Bohr quantization condition of "old" quantum mechanics
$$L=n\hbar$$
which clearly does not depend on ##r##. For a quick "derivation" of this condition see the second box in
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Bohr.html
 
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  • #32
I try to answer, let's see ... The mistake I think you try to find an analogy with the case "classic." But unfortunately does not go very far, in the classical case it makes sense to speak of a physical object rolling. In MQ, for example, we associate an angular momentum to the electron, which also has a "radius", but can not conceive an object as "rotating". For example, the photon has a spin equal to 1, but how do you represent a photon "rotating" on itself? In addition, the electron orbital angular momentum would make sense if it were a solid macroscpic object that rotates on itself, and it is not the quantum case. Any analogy with the classical case vanishes, as vanishes r. The same "radius" r is not a concept that has an analogy with the classical case. (Positions and spatial coordinates are "operators"). So the only thing consistent in your hand is the electron wave function, and the only thing you can do is calculate the eigenstates of L applied to ## \psi ## . The rest of the work it does mathematics..
 
  • #33
we see it in a more concrete way a little bit maybe you can somehow get closer to a "picture" classic. Indeed on "large atoms" for example with more electrons, you would expect a "big angular momentum" as a fact (in a quantum) occurs.
Let us take the simplest case of the hydrogen atom in a first approximation, only Coulomb potential without further correction, relativistic spin-orbit etc.
The eigenfunctions of the Hamiltonian are of the type: ## \psi_ {nlm} (\ r, \Theta, \Phi) = \ R_ {nl} (\ r) \ Y ^ {m} _ {l} (\Theta, \Phi) ##
These are eigenfunctions of the total angular momentum ##\hat {\mathbf L}^2## eigenvalues ##\hbar ^2l (l + 1)##
Where n, l and m are respectively the main quantum numbers, angular momentum and angular orientation with respect to an axis.
The condition on the number l is : ##0 \leq l \leq n-1##
So, effectively increasing the quantum number n, the quantum number can take on progressively higher values with "more" angular momentum as a mechanic.
Remember that the shape of the wave function is spherical only in the case n = 1, but with n higher this shape is complicated, assuming shapes or ellipsoids with lobes arranged on the axes, for which it is impossible to speak of a "radius", although in the spherical case we can speak of "radius" only in a probabilistic sense
 

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