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News No representation without taxation

  1. Apr 25, 2009 #1
    I will soon move to Boston after living in Florida and Texas, Respectively. I was a little perturbed that I will have to pay state taxes. This was, until I found out the public school system in MA was ranked #1 and Texas and Florida #33 and #39, respectively [1]. I seem to me that the money is well spent.

    Question, to those small government low taxes folks out there. Under which circumstances would it be OK for you to pay taxes and for you to be at peace with it?

    Source:
    [1] http://www.afromerica.com/knowledge/education/public/schoolranks.php
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Apr 25, 2009 #2

    Pengwuino

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    You're making your conclusion based off a single "variable", taxation. If you immediately look at California's ranking (which I find hard to believe.... sometimes), your conclusion doesn't make too much sense. Plus you're conclusion is off a single piece of anecdotal evidence.
     
  4. Apr 25, 2009 #3

    Although you could rightfully so accuse me of thinking, maybe, too linearly. I think there is a correlation between the quality of a school system in a state and the money that people are willing to pay for it.

    So the original question remains
     
  5. Apr 25, 2009 #4
    It seems as though your source was from 2004. As I am having trouble finding state/local tax burdens for the fiscal year of 2004, I have used the closest I could find (2005)--> http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/taxesbystate2005/. Looking at these numbers, I find your premise to be erroneous for a few reasons. First, the simple existence of taxes does not ensure the quality of the public schooling. There are many other factors, though your conclusion may appear "reasonable" or logical.

    Second, Massachuesetts is ranked #32 in state/local tax burdens among the other 49 states. It is clear that the quality of public schooling is not proportional to the tax rates of the state. Though Hawaii was ranked third among other states for state/local tax burden , the state is ranked #42 (according to your source) for quality of public schooling.

    I am perfectly fine with paying taxes, so long as the dollars go towards a worthwhile cause. Every citizen has a limited duty. However, I have problems with an increased tax burden due to government taking on failed businesses and other similar reasons.
     
  6. Apr 26, 2009 #5
    From the perspective of an anarcho-capitalist, taxation is always immoral. You don't really "pay" taxes, money is simply stolen from you with the threat of violence. Any form of "taxation" that is voluntary, however, seems just fine from such a perspective.
     
  7. Apr 27, 2009 #6

    russ_watters

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    When you say "state taxes", what taxes are you talking about? Income tax? Sales tax? Texas has a higher sales tax rate than MA. In either case, the largest fraction of school funding isn't state money, it's local property taxes.

    http://www.investintexasschools.org/schoolfunding/current.php [Broken]

    What's more, it stands to reason that education quailty depends on funding and since funding depends mostly on state and local taxes and state and local tax revenues depend on the wealth/prosperity of the residents, you have a self-perpetuating school quality problem in low-prosperity states. In other words, MA doesn't have better schools because it has higher taxes (the taxes are not much higher), it has better schools because it has richer people living there.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  8. Apr 27, 2009 #7
    Yeah, but unlike most thieves, this one runs a sewer line to my house. I'll take the good with the bad.
     
  9. Apr 27, 2009 #8
    Good point Russ. What in your opinion can we do to revere this trend?
     
  10. Apr 27, 2009 #9

    D H

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    One factor is illegal immigration. The four states with the greatest proportion of illegal immigrants are California (6%), Arizona (4.4%), Texas (4.3%), and Nevada (3.9%). Those states rankings: 43, 48, 33, and 49, respectively.
     
  11. Apr 27, 2009 #10

    mheslep

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    True for the average snatch and grab punk, but organized crime has a long history of providing 'protection' in return for its arm breaking collections.
     
  12. Apr 27, 2009 #11

    mheslep

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    Perhaps in very non-linear way. District of Columbia schools have one of the highest spending per student ratios in the country and some of the worst outcomes.
     
  13. Apr 27, 2009 #12

    russ_watters

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    Perhaps you have it backwards: there is a linear association with the occasional anomaly. DC is a highly unusual case.

    Still, it is probably also true that the association is only partly about the money. The money derived from tax revenue also tells you about the quality of the parents.
     
  14. Apr 27, 2009 #13

    mheslep

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    I dunno. DC may be an outlier in the US, but according to this
    http://edpro.stanford.edu/hanushek/admin/pages/files/uploads/HESEDU2014-1.pdf [Broken], page 21, figure 3
    we're the highest spender in the world per capita on education, and the US certainly is (EDIT!) NOT tops in outcome. I would hazard that outcome/spending is linear until some minimum figure, and then tails off.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  15. Apr 28, 2009 #14
    But what happens when the trillions of dollars that the government have stolen goes to fund horrendous wars in countries far away?
     
  16. Apr 28, 2009 #15
    Then you know you ought to vote for someone else?
     
  17. Apr 28, 2009 #16
    So maybe we should just do away with ALL taxation then and dismantle our military? :uhh:
     
  18. Apr 28, 2009 #17
    What about universal healthcare? Maybe we can convince the medical field to go pro-bono?
     
  19. Apr 28, 2009 #18

    mheslep

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    Why would you want to do that?
     
  20. Apr 28, 2009 #19
    I don't....I have absolutely no issue with paying taxes.

    That was in response to the comparison of taxes to stealing (which is absurd) and where you stated: "organized crime has a long history of providing 'protection' in return for its arm breaking collections".

    It seemed as if you were making the comparison, so I rolled with it.
     
  21. Apr 28, 2009 #20

    mheslep

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    No issue? None? Surely you mean to qualify that, as you wouldn't want to pay, say, 100% taxes, or you might have an issue if the government decided to fund the mheslep program for $1 trillion or so?

    The point: if some group takes your money and along the way happens to do you some service (which you may/may not need) that may, or may not be a good thing. It may be benevolent and unavoidable, but it is almost certain to incur waste, mistakes, and unintended consequences. Thus a reasonable philosophy is reduce the process (government) to its absolute minimums.
     
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