Non linear, non exact first order DE

  • Thread starter Thread starter fluidistic
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    First order Linear
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a non-linear, non-exact first-order differential equation given by x+y+1+(2x+2y-1)y'=0. Participants explore various substitution methods and question the applicability of integrating factors and separability.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss a z-substitution and its implications for the equation's separability and exactness. There are attempts to simplify the equation using a new variable w=x+y, but confusion arises regarding the linearity and separability of the resulting expressions. Questions about the effectiveness of the substitution method and the nature of the differential equation are raised.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants sharing insights and suggestions for approaching the problem. Some guidance has been provided regarding variable separation, but explicit consensus on the method or solution has not been reached.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the simplification of the equation and the conditions under which their substitutions would be valid. There is also mention of the implicit function theorem and its relevance to the problem, indicating a consideration of the broader implications of their findings.

fluidistic
Gold Member
Messages
3,934
Reaction score
286

Homework Statement


I must solve the following DE: [itex]x+y+1+(2x+2y-1)y'=0[/itex].
I can't write the DE under the form y'+P(x)y=Q(x) so I can't use the integrating factor method. I checked out of the DE is exact, and it's not.

Homework Equations


Not really sure.

The Attempt at a Solution


I tried a z-substitution but I fell over a non separable DE.
Let [itex]z=2x+2y+1 \Rightarrow z'=2+2y' \Rightarrow y'=\frac{z'-2}{2}[/itex].
The original DE then turns out to be worth [itex]\frac{z}{2}+\frac{1}{2}+\frac{z}{2} (z'-2)=0 \Rightarrow - \frac{z}{2} + \frac{zz'}{2}+\frac{1}{2}=0[/itex]. Thus [itex]-z+zz'=- \frac{1}{2} \Rightarrow -z+z \frac{dz}{dx}=-\frac{1}{2}[/itex] which isn't separable. Hmm maybe I could use the integrating factor method on this DE and solve for z? Hmm no either, I can't put the DE under the right form.

By the way I have a general question on DE's. The z-substitution I have made would work if and only if the DE was exact?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Ok, that one is linear in the two variables (x and y). There is a section in any DE textbook that covers that. Know what, I'd have to review it too and by the time I did that you could do so also. Best though if you do it so you can learn better that way.
 
Ok, I got it. You with me on this? Checked it yet? It's like so easy. Just let w=x+y. You got it now I'm sure but still check out the text. :)
 
Ok I'm with you.
I wish I was understanding what you understand!
I've let w=x+y, reached that the original DE is worth [itex]\frac{w+1}{2w-1}+w'=1[/itex]. Which is still not separable nor linear in my opinion. I'd like more help. :)
 
It is not very simplified yet.

[tex]1-\frac{w+1}{2w-1}[/tex]
 
icystrike said:
It is not very simplified yet.

[tex]1-\frac{w+1}{2w-1}[/tex]

Hmm I see but how can this help me?
 
Let's start at the beginning:
[tex](x+y+1)dx+(2(x+y)-1)dy=0[/tex]
and letting [itex]w=x+y[/itex] so that [itex]dw=dx+dy[/itex]:
[tex](w+1)(dw-dy)+(2w-1)dy=0[/tex]
and then we can separate variables, solve for w in terms of y, then back-substitute w=x+y to get an implicit expression for y in terms of x. You can do that I bet.
 
I'm still stuck. How do you separate the variables here?
I have something like f(w)(dw-dy)+dy=0. But I want something of the form f(w)dw+f(y)dy=0. I don't know how to reach this.
 
fluidistic said:
I'm still stuck. How do you separate the variables here?
I have something like f(w)(dw-dy)+dy=0. But I want something of the form f(w)dw+f(y)dy=0. I don't know how to reach this.

Collect the variables on dw and dy: (...)dw + (...)dy and you will see how to separate the variables.
 
  • #10
LCKurtz said:
Collect the variables on dw and dy: (...)dw + (...)dy and you will see how to separate the variables.

Ok thanks!
I reach [itex]y=-x-y-3 \ln (|2-x-y|)+C[/itex]. Is that the "implicit expression of y"? I bet there's no way to get explicitly y(x), although I guess the implicit function theorem could demonstrate this but I'm not really sure.

By the way, how is this method of the substitution called? What is the method we've used to solve the DE, in other words?
 

Similar threads

Replies
7
Views
2K
Replies
8
Views
2K
Replies
6
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
10
Views
2K