Non-linear Replacements for QM

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the exploration of non-linear replacements for quantum mechanics (QM) and the implications of non-unitarity in quantum theories. Participants express interest in relevant literature and the potential experimental consequences of non-linear theories in comparison to traditional QM.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants mention the existence of papers suggesting non-linear replacements for QM and nonlocal replacements for relativity.
  • There are two schools of thought regarding non-linear time evolution: one led by Penrose and others proposing small non-linear corrections to the Schrödinger equation to induce collapse.
  • A question is raised about whether demonstrating non-linearity would falsify QM, as QM is predicated on unitary evolution.
  • Participants note the challenge of differentiating between a small deviation from unitarity and errors in experimental setups, particularly in detecting quantum interference phenomena.
  • The proposal of Penrose's Felix experiment is discussed, which aims to show that gravitational effects could lead to the disappearance of quantum interference due to postulated non-linearity.
  • Concerns are expressed about the difficulty of observing quantum interference and the potential for uncontrolled effects to obscure results.
  • A participant references a paper discussing these topics, which critiques the Many-Worlds Interpretation (MWI) but lacks strong arguments against it.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying perspectives on the implications of non-linear theories for QM, with no consensus reached on the validity or consequences of these theories. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the impact of non-linearity on the foundational aspects of quantum mechanics.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of non-linearity and unitarity, as well as the unresolved nature of experimental setups that could influence the outcomes of proposed tests.

Rade
In another thread, PF member "SelfAdjoint" made the following comment:
...and indeed you see papers suggesting non-linear replacements for QM and nonlocal replacements for relativity...
I am interesting in reading such papers that "suggest" non-linear replacements for quantum mechanics (QM). Would anyone know of internet links ?
Also, I have a question, if in fact it can be shown that reality is non-linear (not unitary), would not such an experiment falsify QM as a valid theory, since by its definition QM requires that quantum realities be unitary ? Thanks for helping me better understand a very complex topic.
 
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Rade said:
I am interesting in reading such papers that "suggest" non-linear replacements for quantum mechanics (QM). Would anyone know of internet links ?

There are two "schools": some have a *reason* to have non-linear time evolution (the one that comes to mind is Penrose of course ; or look at the recent hype around Heim's theory), and others try to introduce small, made-up non-linear corrections to the Schroedinger equation in order to obtain a genuine collapse (Stamatescu for instance).

Also, I have a question, if in fact it can be shown that reality is non-linear (not unitary), would not such an experiment falsify QM as a valid theory, since by its definition QM requires that quantum realities be unitary ?

It is going to be difficult to differentiate between a (small) deviation of unitarity, and some error in the modelling of the experimental setup.
The idea would probably be to try to detect an expected quantum interference phenomenon, and observe that it doesn't appear.

For instance, look at Penrose's Felix experiment proposal, where he tries to show that, once a gravitational effect is introduced, quantum interference should disappear because of his postulated non-linearity which induces collapse. But *it is quite difficult, experimentally, to observe quantum interference* ! Any tiny uncontrolled effect can screw up the phase relations between the terms that should interfere, and destroy the coherence.
When you observe interference, there's no doubt: you've seen an effect. However, when you do not see interference, is it fundamental, or have you overlooked a perturbation in the experiment ?
 
Thank you Vanesch--I will google search Penrose Felix and Stamatescu, any others come to mind ?
 
Careful pointed me out to a paper in which such kinds of discussion is helt. It is quite negative about MWI (but with no good argument!), but apart from that, it's a great read, and Leggett is after all a Nobel laureate.

http://www.physics.uiuc.edu/People/Faculty/profiles/Leggett/PhysicaC-2002.pdf
 

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