Non-rotating or rotating Metric

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the rotational characteristics of the Milky Way Galaxy and the appropriateness of different metrics, specifically the Schwarzschild and Kerr metrics, for modeling it. Participants explore the implications of the galaxy's rotation and asymmetry on the choice of metric, as well as the challenges of modeling such systems in general relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that the Milky Way Galaxy is rotating but is not spherically symmetric, suggesting that neither the Kerr nor Schwarzschild metrics are suitable.
  • Another participant notes that the galaxy is matter dominated, indicating that a rotating, asymmetric dust solution would be necessary, which would require numerical relativity.
  • Several participants mention that using Newtonian gravity with post-Newtonian (PPN) corrections is adequate for modeling galaxy evolution.
  • There is a reference to a recent rotating metric solution related to a disk of dust rotating around a black hole, which reduces to the Kerr black hole in one limit and to the Neugebauer-Meinel disk in another.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the applicability of certain models to real galaxies, noting that idealized models may not capture the complexities of actual systems.
  • There is a discussion about the difficulties of modeling common physical scenarios with general relativity, with a request for recommendations on literature regarding numerical relativity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the Milky Way Galaxy is rotating and that its non-spherical symmetry complicates the choice of metric. However, there is no consensus on the best approach to modeling the galaxy, with multiple competing views on the adequacy of different metrics and methods.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in modeling the Milky Way Galaxy due to its asymmetry and the challenges posed by general relativity in practical scenarios. There are unresolved questions regarding the applicability of various metrics and the effectiveness of numerical relativity in capturing the dynamics of such systems.

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Is the Milky Way Galaxy non-rotating or rotating?

Which metric is best suited: Schwarzschild or the Kerr Metric, respectively?
 
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The galaxy is rotating, but it is not spherically symmetric so neither Kerr nor Schwarzschild is good.
 
It is also matter dominated (matter is spread throughout, rather than vacuum plus center you can treat as 'black box'). Thus, a rotating, asymmetric dust solution would be required. This requires numerical relativity. Of course, it is adequate, in practice, to use Newtonian gravity with PPN corrections in the galactic center to model galaxy evolution.
 
There are lots of rotating dust solutions in GR. But as PAllen has said it is good enough to use Newtonian gravity with PPN corrections to model galaxy evolution.

The most recent rotating metric is probably here arXiv:1003.1453v1,

BOUNDARY VALUE PROBLEMS FOR THE STATIONARY AXISYMMETRIC EINSTEIN EQUATIONS: A DISK ROTATING AROUND A BLACK HOLE

JONATAN LENELLS

Abstract. We solve a class of boundary value problems for the stationary ax-
isymmetric Einstein equations corresponding to a disk of dust rotating uniformly
around a central black hole. The solutions are given explicitly in terms of theta
functions on a family of hyperelliptic Riemann surfaces of genus 4. In the absence
of a disk, they reduce to the Kerr black hole. In the absence of a black hole, they
reduce to the Neugebauer-Meinel disk.
 
Last edited:
Mentz114 said:
There are lots of rotating dust solutions in GR. But as PAllen has said it is good enough to use Newtonian gravity with PPN corrections to model galaxy evolution.

The most recent rotating metric is probably here arXiv:1003.1453v1,

BOUNDARY VALUE PROBLEMS FOR THE STATIONARY AXISYMMETRIC EINSTEIN EQUATIONS: A DISK ROTATING AROUND A BLACK HOLE

JONATAN LENELLS

That's cool, thanks! Maybe better as highly ideal model of a BH with accretion disk rather than a galaxy. Maybe not even that: by definition, an accretion disk is not stationary (BH is growing), and no real system has perfect symmetry. Thus, investigations into GW produced BH-stellar interactions where the start gets eaten (with lots of matter ejected as well), all use numeric relativity.
 
PAllen said:
That's cool, thanks! Maybe better as highly ideal model of a BH with accretion disk rather than a galaxy. Maybe not even that: by definition, an accretion disk is not stationary (BH is growing), and no real system has perfect symmetry. Thus, investigations into GW produced BH-stellar interactions where the start gets eaten (with lots of matter ejected as well), all use numeric relativity.
Yes, it's a shame that so many commonplace physical scenarios are difficult ( or imposible ?) to model with GR. Is there a book on numerical relativity you can recommend ?
 
Mentz114 said:
Yes, it's a shame that so many commonplace physical scenarios are difficult ( or imposible ?) to model with GR. Is there a book on numerical relativity you can recommend ?

No, but the following website links to a whole series of papers describing their methods:

www.black-holes.org

see specifically:

http://www.black-holes.org/numrel1.html
http://www.black-holes.org/numrel2.html // 3,4 etc.
http://www.black-holes.org/SpEC.html
http://www.black-holes.org/researchers3.html
http://www.black-holes.org/researchers1.html
 
PAllen said:
No, but the following website links to a whole series of papers describing their methods:

www.black-holes.org
..
..
..
I've had a quick look and it does look interesting. Thank you.
 

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