North Pole may disappear [briefly] this summer

AI Thread Summary
Arctic warming has reached a critical point, with scientists projecting that the North Pole may be ice-free for the first time in history this summer. David Barber from the University of Manitoba emphasized the unprecedented nature of this event, which could trigger significant climatic feedback loops due to the loss of reflective ice. The discussion also touched on geoengineering as a potential solution to combat rising temperatures, despite its controversial nature. Participants debated the implications of melting ice, including shipping advantages and ecological impacts, while noting that the Arctic's ice extent has fluctuated historically. Concerns were raised about the role of pollution, particularly soot from industrial sources, in accelerating ice melt. The conversation highlighted the complexity of climate science, with varying opinions on whether current changes are anthropogenic or part of natural cycles. Overall, the melting of Arctic ice is seen as a significant indicator of broader climate change trends, with potential consequences for global weather patterns and ecosystems.
  • #51
russ_watters said:
Now those houses they built on the arctic ice cap, on the other hand, are in some trouble.
Yeah, they say the housing market there is on the brink of a total meltdown.
 
Earth sciences news on Phys.org
  • #52
Gokul43201 said:
Yeah, they say the housing market there is on the brink of a total meltdown.

or total meltdown?
 
  • #53
russ_watters said:
We recognized the joke - it's just funnier to not let him have it.

I live for someone to give me the recognition I crave. You know how much it tears at my insides to be ignored?
 
  • #55
russ_watters said:
The north pole can't melt - it isn't made of ice, it's just a steel pole, sunk in concrete ( http://www.northpole.com/ ).

Actually it was a pole. :rolleyes: Found it. :biggrin:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #56
Contrary to the title of this thread, the rapidly growing ice is now causing a disaster:

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=967a7bcf-53f6-4963-99af-4be36121ef0b

Number of narwhals trapped in Arctic ice could be 4 times higher than thought

As many as 400 Arctic tusked whales face death as ice closes in
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #57
That doesn't really have anything to do with anything, Andre - ice grows and recedes in a yearly cycle.
 
  • #58
This whole debate on climate change is degenerating into farce.

The world has never seen such freezing heat

A surreal scientific blunder last week raised a huge question mark about the temperature records that underpin the worldwide alarm over global warming. On Monday, Nasa's Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS), which is run by Al Gore's chief scientific ally, Dr James Hansen, and is one of four bodies responsible for monitoring global temperatures, announced that last month was the hottest October on record.

This was startling. Across the world there were reports of unseasonal snow and plummeting temperatures last month, from the American Great Plains to China, and from the Alps to New Zealand. China's official news agency reported that Tibet had suffered its "worst snowstorm ever". In the US, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration registered 63 local snowfall records and 115 lowest-ever temperatures for the month, and ranked it as only the 70th-warmest October in 114 years.

So what explained the anomaly? GISS's computerised temperature maps seemed to show readings across a large part of Russia had been up to 10 degrees higher than normal. But when expert readers of the two leading warming-sceptic blogs, Watts Up With That and Climate Audit, began detailed analysis of the GISS data they made an astonishing discovery. The reason for the freak figures was that scores of temperature records from Russia and elsewhere were not based on October readings at all. Figures from the previous month had simply been carried over and repeated two months running.
<snip>
The error was so glaring that when it was reported on the two blogs - run by the US meteorologist Anthony Watts and Steve McIntyre, the Canadian computer analyst who won fame for his expert debunking of the notorious "hockey stick" graph - GISS began hastily revising its figures. This only made the confusion worse because, to compensate for the lowered temperatures in Russia, GISS claimed to have discovered a new "hotspot" in the Arctic - in a month when satellite images were showing Arctic sea-ice recovering so fast from its summer melt that three weeks ago it was 30 per cent more extensive than at the same time last year.

A GISS spokesman lamely explained that the reason for the error in the Russian figures was that they were obtained from another body, and that GISS did not have resources to exercise proper quality control over the data it was supplied with. This is an astonishing admission: the figures published by Dr Hansen's institute are not only one of the four data sets that the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) relies on to promote its case for global warming, but they are the most widely quoted, since they consistently show higher temperatures than the others.
<snip>
Yet last week's latest episode is far from the first time Dr Hansen's methodology has been called in question. In 2007 he was forced by Mr Watts and Mr McIntyre to revise his published figures for US surface temperatures, to show that the hottest decade of the 20th century was not the 1990s, as he had claimed, but the 1930s.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/11/16/do1610.xml

These people were either deliberately lying or were grossly incompetent. One now wonders how many other 'errors' there are in the GISS historical database which were insuffuciently large to attract investigation?

Either way, whether the error was malicious or accidental, it shows the management to be fools. Fools if they thought a lie of such magnitude would get by the rest of the scientific community and fools for not questioning their conclusions when common sense should have sent alarm bells ringing. What it does show is they need a management clearout and some real independent scientists given the job of record keeping at NASA.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #59
russ_watters said:
That doesn't really have anything to do with anything, Andre - ice grows and recedes in a yearly cycle.

What he said. Let's not try to exaggerate yearly cycles.
 
  • #60
LightbulbSun said:
What he said. Let's not try to exaggerate yearly cycles.

Here is a part in the yearly cycle.

200811_Figure2_thumb.png

source

It merely shows that ice growth was unusual strong in October, trapping the narwals and it also gives feedback about the actual variation in the ice cover in relation to the OP.

Nothing more than that. Also related is https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=263921
 
Last edited:
  • #61
Andre said:
Contrary to the title of this thread, the rapidly growing ice is now causing a disaster:
It allows Canada's new secret weapon to attack wherever they want (here shown attempting to eat a US nuclear sub)

bear_sub1.jpg
 

Similar threads

Replies
1
Views
4K
Back
Top