Not invited for a job interview, because I'm female

[Pythagorean]

somebody besides a white male is suffering from affirmative action?

 

[Drakkith]

somebody besides a white male is suffering from affirmative action?

Funny how almost no one thinks that descriminating against that group (which I am a member) is bad as long as any other group gets priority. Again, i completely understand the reasons, but it still doesn't make it right. But I guess it depends on what is "More right" or "Less Wrong" to people.

 

[Pythagorean]

Funny how almost no one thinks that descriminating against that group (which I am a member) is bad as long as any other group gets priority. Again, i completely understand the reasons, but it still doesn't make it right. But I guess it depends on what is "More right" or "Less Wrong" to people.

Fight racism/sexism with racism/sexism. That's the motto of affirmative action.

But yeah, I haven't come up with a better way, so I guess the cycle continues for now.

 

[CRGreathouse]

To some extent, this type of affirmative action seems like it is being applied to admissions at Canadian med schools,

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/time-to-lead/failing-boys/part-5-is-affirmative-action-for-men-the-answer-to-enrolment-woes/article1766432/page2/,

and maybe more generally to various programs at North American universities.

From the second page of the above article:

The notion of a stealth policy of affirmative action for men is not new. It first surfaced south of the border in 2006. That year, the dean of Kenyon College wrote an op-ed in The New York Times lamenting that she had to pass over “glorious stacks of girls” in favour of less qualified boys in order to keep some semblance of a gender balance at the school.

Yeah, how ridiculous. Is that even legal? It shouldn't be.

 

[Proton Soup]

Fight racism/sexism with racism/sexism. That's the motto of affirmative action.

But yeah, I haven't come up with a better way, so I guess the cycle continues for now.

meh, it's just that women are really good with the verbal part of their brain. it's like the reverse situation for engineering. i take it more as a sign that, on average, men and women are simply different and excel at different tasks. so we are never going to see a homogeneity among professions, nor should we expect to.

 

[nismaratwork]

Wow, they really shouldn't have snubbed a lady who can probably make a functional hydrogen bomb out of spare parts...

 

[Topher925]

meh, it's just that women are really good with the verbal part of their brain. it's like the reverse situation for engineering. i take it more as a sign that, on average, men and women are simply different and excel at different tasks. so we are never going to see a homogeneity among professions, nor should we expect to.

Exactly. I say get rid of all these equality laws and let employers/organizations choose who they think is the best candidate for the job. The world is not an after school special.

 

[nismaratwork]

Exactly. I say get rid of all these equality laws and let employers/organizations choose who they think is the best candidate for the job. The world is not an after school special.

re: bolded portion... True, and the employers are not philosopher kings to be trusted so completely.

 

[rhody]

Monique,

Thank you! It's definitely one I like, it's a great group of people. The project requires quite a bit of intellectual investment and is part of a large international framework, a real challenge

Congrats... and to inspire you... have a look at these four women's experience on TED this month, I found them quite uplifting and inspiring.

http://www.ted.com/talks/diana_lauf..._campaign=newsletter_weekly&utm_medium=email"

http://www.ted.com/talks/hanna_rosi..._campaign=newsletter_weekly&utm_medium=email"

http://www.ted.com/talks/kiran_bedi..._campaign=newsletter_weekly&utm_medium=email"

http://www.ted.com/talks/halla_toma..._campaign=newsletter_weekly&utm_medium=email"

Rhody...

P.S.

Halla Tomasdottir's message really struck home with me. I have been to Iceland, twice, the people are very interesting to say the least, and Halla is a great example of what I am talking about. Hope this inspires you even more.

 

[Kurdt]

I've had AN interview in the past 5 years. Mainly rejections.

 

[Evo]

I've had AN interview in the past 5 years. Mainly rejections.

That's because you won't let me write your cover letter.

 

[Kurdt]

That's because you won't let me write your cover letter.

You'd lie.

 

[Evo]

No, I'd tell the truth.

 

[Danger]

Monique, I'm glad to hear that you got a job that you like with an obviously more astute employer.

 

[PhDorBust]

Females get a ridiculous number of benefits if they study the sciences. This is why many people view them as less competent - they usually are.

This not directed towards any constitutional deficiency but rather a product of the US political state.

 

[Kurdt]

Monique is in Europe.

 

[chiro]

Far out Monique, I hope the job you ended up taking works out and that your colleagues aren't idiotic like the others.

You know its weird but I see nowadays that a lot of employers like to be known as "diverse" for the variety of their employees to give a message (mostly PR) that they are "culturally sensitive and knowledgeable".

To me I think its pretty ****ed up. People like to come across in a way that says "I don't discriminate" yet the idiots do it automatically by doing things like saying "so many must be black, so many must be Hispanic, so many must be female" and so on.

Basically they are doing what they said they wouldn't do. If they didn't categorize people then their would be no discrimination because it wouldn't be a focal point and therefore the discrimination wouldn't exist but instead be based on a meritocracy.

Here in australia, our welfare system can give Aboriginal and Torres Straight Islanders all of these so called benefits and they wonder why others still discriminate against them. If we treated everyone the same, there would be no discrimination, but again as soon as we classify someone by race,gender or whatever we have actually discriminated!

I don't know anymore, the world is a funny place.

 

[Monique]

Thanks Rhody, I'll take a look at those videos.

Monique, I'm glad to hear that you got a job that you like with an obviously more astute employer.

Exactly

Females get a ridiculous number of benefits if they study the sciences. This is why many people view them as less competent - they usually are.

This not directed towards any constitutional deficiency but rather a product of the US political state.

I've never seen a female in science get more benefits, the only thing I know of the it L'Oreal foundation for Women in Science: something you'd expect from a cosmetics brand. The fact that most professors in biological sciences are still male, means that women still have a lot of ground to gain. I'm not for positive discrimination of women though, people should be judged for their qualities and not be cast aside because of gender.

Before visiting the lab that offered me a job, I had a telephone interview and the PI told me that my CV and letters of recommendation were the best the PI had come across. Not to brag, but I think that is quite something. I'm glad to be in an environment to be appreciated

You know its weird but I see nowadays that a lot of employers like to be known as "diverse" for the variety of their employees to give a message (mostly PR) that they are "culturally sensitive and knowledgeable".

To me I think its pretty ****ed up. People like to come across in a way that says "I don't discriminate" yet the idiots do it automatically by doing things like saying "so many must be black, so many must be Hispanic, so many must be female" and so on.

Basically they are doing what they said they wouldn't do.

I agree. Like there are labs who say they only want to hire males, there are also the labs who say they only want to hire a foreigner. I get worked up when I hear something like that.

 

[fuzzyfelt]

Congrats, Monique, for getting the job you like.

 

[russ_watters]

meh, it's just that women are really good with the verbal part of their brain. it's like the reverse situation for engineering. i take it more as a sign that, on average, men and women are simply different and excel at different tasks. so we are never going to see a homogeneity among professions, nor should we expect to.

While I would probably tend to agree that men and women have different strengths/weaknesses, ultimately that is deeper analysis than is really needed. All that really matters is the fact that the sexes choose different professions.

 

[nismaratwork]

While I would probably tend to agree that men and women have different strengths/weaknesses, ultimately that is deeper analysis than is really needed. All that really matters is the fact that the sexes choose different professions.

Good point, much as women on average make better pilots, that doesn't mean we need to jettison our current air force. What needs to be done is what Monique has said; women need to gain higher positions so that they can uplift other women... and that takes time and constant effort; It doesn't take microscopic tolerances however.

 

[mheslep]

I wonder if actually having laws prohibiting such loathsome and brain dead discrimination in private industry is the most effective corrective.

I know that's a reach in today's modern world, but consider Monique's case: she may have had several reasons for not identifying the offending employer in this instance, but I speculate a major one was because doing so might have entangled her in a discrimination legal action, even if she did not personally bring charges - thus tagging her as a legal troublemaker to other potential employers. But if the legal discrimination laws and sanctions vanished, Monique's post here might have been very different, naming names: "Hey everyone, with my shiny new doctorate in hand I just applied for position X at the Neanderthal Research Institute, and sure enough they are what they do", possibly followed by some replys, "yes I had the same experience", and she moves on. Other employers know no legal problem can follow her, have nothing to fear. Instead they know she's forthright, and I warrant that a rather large and well deserved stink is then put on the Neanderthals, along with everyone working there.

 

[story645]

Females get a ridiculous number of benefits if they study the sciences.

I'm with monique here 'cause I actually went and researched this back when I was applying for grad school. All the fellowships are really difficult to get and severely limited in scope, and therefore not that shiny. Basically if someone can can win one of the opportunities offered to girls, it's 'cause her stats are awesome enough to win almost anything.

This is why many people view them as less competent - they usually are.

It's mostly a numbers thing. Most of my my undergrad CS and EE classes had 3-5 girls to 25-30 guys. Of those girls, about half were incompetent, but guess what? so were about half those guys. (Hell more, because studies find that girls are more likely to leave fields they're bad at than guys are).
So here's how it works: If there are only 3 girls and half of 'em are lousy, you tend to think of all of them as incompetent 'cause they don't wash out in a crowd of girls. The lousy guys tend to blend in more.
Or more simply:
How it Works

All that really matters is the fact that the sexes choose different professions.

Most of the studies on this find that it's very cultural, 'cause countries like Russia and India are always posted as examples where there's basically gender parity in many of the STEM fields.