Not that Obvious: Missing Numbers In A Table

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a system of equations derived from a table with missing numbers. Participants explore various methods to relate the variables and derive their values, focusing on mathematical reasoning and problem-solving techniques.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose defining the sums of rows and columns as $S_R$ and $S_C$, leading to a set of equations.
  • Others argue that there are five equations and five unknowns, suggesting that standard techniques should suffice for solving the system.
  • A participant attempts to express each variable in terms of others, leading to a series of derived equations.
  • One participant suggests subtracting equations to simplify the relationships between variables, leading to specific values for some variables.
  • Another participant questions the correctness of a derived value for $e$, prompting a request for detailed work to verify the calculations.
  • Multiple participants arrive at different values for $e$, with one suggesting $e=47$ and another proposing $e=27$ based on their calculations.
  • A later reply indicates a potential error in the calculations, noting that the numbers do not add up correctly and suggesting a review of the work.
  • Another participant references an online calculator's output for the variables, proposing a specific solution set that includes $c=36$.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the values of the variables, as different calculations yield conflicting results for $e$ and other variables. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion, including potential errors in calculations and dependencies on the assumptions made when relating the variables. The exact relationships and values remain uncertain.

Ilikebugs
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Ive tried to make each variable relate to a but it hasn't worked.View attachment 6511
 

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Re: Not that Obvious

Suppose we let the sum of any row be $S_R$ and the sum of any column be $S_C$, where $S_R\ne S_C$. Using the table, we get the equations:

$$a+157=S_R$$

$$b+c+113=S_R$$

$$d+e+120=S_R$$

$$b+110=S_C$$

$$d+108=S_C$$

$$a+118=S_C$$

$$c+e+54=S_C$$

You now have 7 equations in 7 unknowns...can you proceed?
 
Re: Not that Obvious

You have five equations and five unknowns. Solving this system of equation using any standard technique should work.

Ilikebugs said:
Ive tried to make each variable relate to a but it hasn't worked.
Please describe in more detail what you tried.

Edit: By the five equations I mean equating the sum of the first and second row as well as the sum of the second and third row, and similarly for columns.
 
Re: Not that Obvious

a+157=b+c+113=d+e+120
b+110=d+108=a+118=c+e+54

a=c+b-44=d+e-37
b=a-c+44
c=a-b+44
d=a-e+37
e=a-d+37

a=b+8=d+10=c+e-64

I tried to change each variable to a+ something.
 
Re: Not that Obvious

This is the kind of strategy I would use:

Subtract the second equation from the first to get:

$$a-b=c-44$$

Subtract the 4th from the 6th to get:

$$a-b=-8$$

And so we conclude:

$$c=32$$

Next, observe that the 1st and 3rd equations involve $a,\,d,\,e$ and the 5th and 6th equations involve $a,\,d$...so can you use a similar technique to determine $e$?
 
Re: Not that Obvious

e=47?
 
Re: Not that Obvious

Ilikebugs said:
e=47?

It would help if you show your work...:D
 
Re: Not that Obvious

a+157=SRa+157=SR

b+c+113=SRb+c+113=SR

d+e+120=SRd+e+120=SR

b+110=SCb+110=SC

d+108=SCd+108=SC

a+118=SCa+118=SC

c+e+54=SC

1-3=
a-d-e+37=0
a-d=e-37

6-5=
a-d=10

10=e-37

e=47
 
Re: Not that Obvious

When I subtract the 5th equation from the 6th, I get:

$$a-d=-10$$

Which means:

$$e=27$$

What would you do next?
 
  • #10
Re: Not that Obvious

32+27+54=SC

=113

a=-5
b=3
d=5
 
  • #11
Re: Not that Obvious

Ilikebugs said:
32+27+54=SC

=113

a=-5
b=3
d=5

Yes, that's exactly what I would have done. Good work! (Star)

edit: We've made an error somewhere...the numbers don't add up...however, I have to run now...check the work and see if you can find the error. :D
 
  • #12
Re: Not that Obvious

According to an online calculator, we should find:

$$(a,b,c,d,e)=(-1,7,36,9,27)$$

Let's see if we can get that...(1) - (2):

$$a-b=c-44$$

(6) - (4):

$$a-b=-8$$

Yes, we find:

$$c=36$$

The rest should now fall into place. :D
 

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