Notation for changing rows in a matrix

  • Thread starter Thread starter member 731016
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Matrix Notation
Click For Summary
The discussion centers on the proper notation for indicating row swaps in matrices. Participants express confusion over the use of R1 <-> R2 and R2 <-> R1, which can imply reversing the swap. The standard notation for swapping rows is clarified as R_m <-> R_n, emphasizing the importance of adhering to established conventions. Suggestions include using right-pointing arrows for clarity, but it's noted that this can lead to ambiguity regarding overwriting rows. Ultimately, understanding the standardized notation is deemed crucial for clear communication in mathematical contexts.
member 731016
Homework Statement
Please see below
Relevant Equations
Please see below
For this,
1686280663310.png

What was wrong with the notation I used for showing that I has swapped the rows? The marker put a purple ?

Any help greatly appreciated!

Many thanks!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I would interpret R1 <-> R2 to mean swap row 1 and row 2. But then you put R2 <-> R1, so that would swap them back where they started.
The note that your teacher put there is a little troublesome.
I would use right-pointing arrows, R1 -> R2 to indicate that row 1 goes to row 2. But then does it overwrite row 2? It's a little ambiguous.
I would prefer one of these two approaches:
1) A single R1 <-> R2.
CORRECTION: There is a level of standardization of the notation that I was not aware of. This option #2 is wrong.
2) R1 -> R2' and R2 -> R1'
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes member 731016
FactChecker said:
I would interpret R1 <-> R2 to mean swap row 1 and row 2. But then you put R2 <-> R1, so that would swap them back where they started.
The note that your teacher put there is a little troublesome.
I would use right-pointing arrows, R1 -> R2 to indicate that row 1 goes to row 2. But then does it overwrite row 2? It's a little ambiguous.
I would prefer one of these two approaches:
1) A single R1 <-> R2.
2) R1 -> R2' and R2 -> R1'
Thank you for you reply @FactChecker!

Your approaches are very helpful. The course textbook uses the first which I think I will use.

Many thanks!
 
CORRECTION: There is a level of standardization of the notation that I was not aware of. This post is wrong.
ChiralSuperfields said:
The course textbook uses the first which I think I will use.
The second approach would be more useful when several rows are moved, but not necessarily swapped.
If you were going to move row 1 to row 2, row 2 to row 3, and row 3 to row 1, you could put:
R1 -> R2' and R2 -> R2' and R3 -> R1'.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes member 731016
FactChecker said:
The second approach would be more useful when several rows are moved, but not necessarily swapped.
If you were going to move row 1 to row 2, row 2 to row 3, and row 3 to row 1, you could put:
R1 -> R2' and R2 -> R2' and R3 -> R1'.
Thank you for your reply @FactChecker!
 
FactChecker said:
I would use right-pointing arrows, R1 -> R2 to indicate that row 1 goes to row 2. But then does it overwrite row 2? It's a little ambiguous.
I would prefer one of these two approaches:
1) A single R1 <-> R2.
2) R1 -> R2' and R2 -> R1'
Why are you inventing your own notation? There is a universally recognised notation for elementary row operations, in this case R1 <-> R2 (or rather ## R1 \leftrightarrow R2 ##).

FactChecker said:
The second approach would be more useful when several rows are moved, but not necessarily swapped.
If you were going to move row 1 to row 2, row 2 to row 3, and row 3 to row 1, you could put:
R1 -> R2' and R2 -> R2' and R3 -> R1'.
No, do NOT do this, rotating three rows is not an elementary row operation. To achieve this you should write ## R1 \leftrightarrow R2, R1 \leftrightarrow R3 ##.
 
  • Like
Likes member 731016, FactChecker and DrClaude
I read it as a wrong positioning. I think it should have been
$$
A\stackrel{R_1\leftrightarrow R_2}{\sim} B
$$
and not
$$
\left. A\sim B \right| R_1\leftrightarrow R_2\, , \,R_2\leftrightarrow R_1
$$
which is too late, since you already did it at ##\sim##, and ambiguous since you seem to do and re-do it.
 
  • Like
Likes member 731016 and DrClaude
ChiralSuperfields said:
What was wrong with the notation I used for showing that I has swapped the rows? The marker put a purple ?
As already mentioned, I believe the note was that your notation appeared after the 2nd matrix, not between the 1st and 2nd matrices.
FactChecker said:
The note that your teacher put there is a little troublesome.
I would use right-pointing arrows, R1 -> R2 to indicate that row 1 goes to row 2.
As already mentioned by @pbuk, the standard notation for swapping rows m and n is ##R_m \leftrightarrow R_n##. There are only three row operations:
  1. Exchanging (swapping) two rows: ##R_m \leftrightarrow R_n##
  2. Replacing a row by a nonzero multiple of itself: ##R_m \leftarrow kR_m##
  3. Replacing a row by the sum of another row and itself: ##R_m \leftarrow R_m + R_n##
 
  • Like
Likes member 731016
pbuk said:
Why are you inventing your own notation? There is a universally recognised notation for elementary row operations, in this case R1 <-> R2 (or rather ## R1 \leftrightarrow R2 ##).
Ok, I'll buy that. I didn't know that the notation was so standardized.
pbuk said:
No, do NOT do this, rotating three rows is not an elementary row operation. To achieve this you should write ## R1 \leftrightarrow R2, R1 \leftrightarrow R3 ##.
This is interesting. Although it makes sense, I didn't realize that there was so much standardization here. So the notation: ##R1 \leftrightarrow R2, R1 \leftrightarrow R3## is not commutative. The second ##R1## is the original row ##R2##.
This type of standardization is significant when a mathematical notation of row operations is developed. It is intellectually satisfying. :-)
 
  • Like
Likes member 731016 and berkeman

Similar threads

  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
823
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K