Numbers are infinite, so why would the universe not be infinite?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between numbers and the universe, specifically questioning whether numbers are inherent to the universe or a human invention. Participants explore the implications of this relationship on the concept of infinity in both numbers and the universe.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that numbers are part of the universe, implying a connection between mathematics and physical reality.
  • Others challenge this view, arguing that numbers are man-made constructs used to describe the universe, rather than inherent aspects of it.
  • One participant points out that while numbers may be invented, they serve as a useful language for understanding complex phenomena.
  • Another participant asserts that the existence of mathematical rules, such as the Pythagorean theorem, indicates that numbers are discovered rather than invented.
  • There is a contention regarding the formulation of concepts like length without numbers, with some asserting that such concepts are also invented.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether numbers are discovered or invented, leading to an unresolved debate on the nature of mathematics in relation to the universe.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the nature of numbers and their role in describing reality, but these assumptions remain unexamined and unresolved.

goldust
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After all, numbers are part of the universe. :biggrin:
 
Last edited:
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goldust said:
After all, numbers are part of the universe.

Are they? Why do you think this? What evidence do you have of this?
 
R136a1 said:
Are they? Why do you think this? What evidence do you have of this?

Haven't you seen that constellation that looks like a 6? If you look good you'll see it whenever and wherever you like ;)

/end sarcasm

R136a1 has a valid point.
Numbers are man-made, we look for a way to describe the universe using maths. It's not that maths is inherent to the universe. If we didn't have math however, there would be so many puzzling things.
It is however impossible to say whether there can exist a more natural language to describe the universe. Also because we can't think of such things without imagining them.
 
erhm how can you formulate a length without numbers?

Therefore numbers are still invented. As is geometry, topology and whatever you can come up with.

Troll?
 
Enough nonsense. Closed.
 

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