Obsessed with a Bag Lady: Aging and Desires

[ihatesnakes]

jaja that's so true sometimes.

but what I meant about hormonal treatments is that they are an option of course, for willing women, and they seem to work wonders on many of the effects of menopause. they are an option...in the "1st world". I did not grow up in it, so imagining the face on the older women who were around me at the suggestion of menopause being a "problem" and taking hormones makes me chuckle. in their opinion, you deal with it just like you deal with every other aspect of womanhood.

to each, their own. as usually

 

[netgypsy]

IN third world countries, to the less privileged, menopause is liberation. Also women who exercise and are outdoors a lot seem to have much less problems with the hot flashes than those in climate controlled sedentary environments.

 

[ihatesnakes]

IN third world countries, to the less privileged, menopause is liberation

I can picture it being so in certain situations, but it's a streched generalization. the women and their husbands I'm referring to would describe it more like hell jaja, but at the same time just one more thing a couple has to go through.

 

[Evo]

I'm surprised that no one has pointed out that many men are not good at sex and women get tired of faking it. Some women don't enjoy sex for a number of reasons and just decide they don't wish to keep doing something they don't like. I think younger women may be more willing to discuss this with theor husbands, but for the older generation it is less likely that this would be an easy subject to approach.

I don't believe that older women prefer their husbands to get sex elsewhere, did someone actually say that?

Also, men peak sexually at a young age, where women peak at a much older age, a lot of men lose the desire and sometimes the ability as they get older. It's very individual.

 

[netgypsy]

True - there are always exceptions and many of them. I'm thinking of the tropical third world country I worked in. There wasn't a lot of middle class and the working poor worked really hard and even though birth control in this Catholic country was available over the counter everywhere there were many who couldn't or didn't get it or for whom it failed, so most of them were quite happy to deal with hot flashes. They did have better medical care in the big city we lived in for the poor there than we do in the US where I live. Here, my friends who have no health insurance and low income can't get help unless they are ready for intensive care in the hospital. But in the US, as I'm sure it is in third world countries, medical care is quite variable depending on where you live. Where I live they closed the only free clinic that is fairly close and the poor don't have the money to drive to the next one as it's quite far. Luckily the job market seems to be picking up so hopefully they're be able to get medical benefits on the job fairly soon.

 

[netgypsy]

EVO so true that it's quite individual, but the baby boomers have really changed things a lot as have the silent generation who just don't talk about what they do. But if sales of viagra are indication someone's interest level is up there.

I've personally heard women say they wish their husband's didn't "bother them" to quote them and that they really didn't care how they dealt with things as long as they didn't catch something. You probably heard that the rate of STD's among the senior population has skyrocketed, particular at these huge senior communities. It's become a huge joke as we have one of those fairly near us and know some couples who live in one. There is a type of treatment for prostate cancer that does not cause problems with male function and our friends from the senior community joke that they're going to start running buses so many men are seeking out that treatment.

 

[ihatesnakes]

I'm surprised that no one has pointed out that many men are not good at sex and women get tired of faking it. Some women don't enjoy sex for a number of reasons and just decide they don't wish to keep doing something they don't like. I think younger women may be more willing to discuss this with theor husbands, but for the older generation it is less likely that this would be an easy subject to approach.

I don't believe that older women prefer their husbands to get sex elsewhere, did someone actually say that?

Also, men peak sexually at a young age, where women peak at a much older age, a lot of men lose the desire and sometimes the ability as they get older. It's very individual.

it's not true, it's not false and it's not just older women. most of the women I've met who don't like sex, not prefer, but look the other way if their husbands look for sex elsewhere because they feel their bond and love is above sex, which they can't seem to work out, so it's more like taking sex out of the equation

 

[netgypsy]

Exactly. What a shame too because most of the men I know really can't cheat on their wives without a huge loss in self respect. So most don't and just have a big gap in their marriage. I forgot about the woman friend I had who was married to an older man who refused to "deal with" his problem. She divorced him and married a guy ten years younger than she is.

 

[ihatesnakes]

oh god yes, it has to be a terrible self-battle for some men. I'm just guessing here, but the ones that end up giving into cheating in these situations had to reach a point where they NEEDED sex

 

[netgypsy]

Many many women have no clue how important sex is to a guy but regardless of how important it is, most I know with that kind of problem just go to internet sites, chatrooms, etc. rather than risk the marriage unless they have an absentee spouse and are on the road or out of town a lot. Today you take a woman who is not your wife anywhere and your photo will end up on facebook or Youtube will have a video of you cosying up. NOT worth the risk.

 

[Evo]

it's not true, it's not false and it's not just older women. most of the women I've met who don't like sex, not prefer, but look the other way if their husbands look for sex elsewhere because they feel their bond and love is above sex, which they can't seem to work out, so it's more like taking sex out of the equation

We definitely run in different circles because I don't know any women that would allow their husband to cheat on them. None. Period.

 

[ihatesnakes]

well, here's another kicker; I've also seen it the other way around. not nearly as much though

 

[turbo]

Monday I visited a furniture store to look at an electrically-powered recliner that my wife had picked out. The lady that dealt with me was a very pretty skinny-butt girl with an impressive chest. She had trouble reading the codes on the tag, and I ended up talking to her about refractive surgery (Lasik) and recommending a top surgeon. At the end of our session, I was dashing for the door due to perfume problems, and she asked me to call from home to finalize the order.

My wife had met her when she initially sought out that recliner, and when I told her that the sales-lady's eyes were changing because she was 50, my wife said "That *****!" I'd hate to be on the receiving-end of any dalliance!

 

[netgypsy]

For sure Turbo

ihatesnakes Like my friend but she just divorced him, didn't cheat on him.

EVO if the women in your circle disliked sex with their husbands I suspect they would end up divorcing or being divorced because they are empowered women. Empowered women don't put up with cheating but most empowered women wouldn't marry a guy they weren't attracted to either. The women I know who don't want to be bothered are loved and love their husbands but somehow never figured out that a good sex life makes marriage even better.

Some people can simply grow apart as they get older or be dishonest in the first place regarding what they are and what they like.

My personal opinion - it's just plain good luck to find a great marriage partner. No wonder they used to have matchmakers.

 

[DaveC426913]

My personal opinion - it's just plain good luck to find a great marriage partner.

Some people make their own luck.

i.e. long-term relationships tend to be 20% luck, 80% work

 

[netgypsy]

Once you've found one you do what it takes to make it work. Some people never seem to have that 20% though.

 

[Evo]

I'm not willing to work at a relationship. I believe that a good relationship shouldn't require work, but if people are willing to do it, that's great for them, as long as they're not completely miserable. My parents didn't get along, but they were determined to not get divorced. It was horrible. They were both miserable and it made us kids miserable. They did their best to try to hide it, never argued in front of us, but there was just no sign of love there. Sometimes divorce is the best solution for everyone.

 

[netgypsy]

Maybe it's the guys who do the work to keep their lady happy. ?

(Agree on sometimes divorce is the best solution but one of our lady in laws said the only reason she was glad her parents stayed together was because she hated the thought of having to live with either one)

 

[turbo]

I know quite a few couples who have broken up, but it's often due to dalliances on the wifes' part, not the guys. I have a female friend that has been married ~5 times in the last 35 years. She's a sweet person, but as faithful as a hummingbird. My wife knows that I was close to here at times and encourages me to "go over and say 'hi'" and other stuff. I decline, because she is a hot break-up artist.

 

[netgypsy]

We can lend you one of our ladies with a big stick if you'd like. hahaha

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I'm not willing to work at a relationship. I believe that a good relationship shouldn't require work, but if people are willing to do it, that's great for them, as long as they're not completely miserable. My parents didn't get along, but they were determined to not get divorced. It was horrible. They were both miserable and it made us kids miserable. They did their best to try to hide it, never argued in front of us, but there was just no sign of love there. Sometimes divorce is the best solution for everyone.

I don't think the notion that some marriages are just bad, negates the claim that all marriages take work. No one can possibly be completely compatible with someone else. There will always be differences that require compromise.

More significant, perhaps, is that we all grow and change. Some people grow together, and some grow apart.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I'm surprised that no one has pointed out that many men are not good at sex and women get tired of faking it.

This was my first thought with the comment about his wife and KY. Sounds like a lack of stimulation and desire. He should have a discussion with his wife about their sex life since it would appear as though they are both dissatisfied with it.

I don't think the notion that some marriages are just bad, negates the claim that all marriages take work. No one can possibly be completely compatible with someone else. There will always be differences that require compromise.

More significant, perhaps, is that we all grow and change. Some people grow together, and some grow apart.

When I was younger I was with my mom in the car and there was a commercial on the radio that said something along the lines of "You shouldn't work at your relationship, you should play at it" and my mother thought that was just horrible though I didn't understand why. I tried to explain it to her though I still don't think she understood. I said that if you view your relationship as "work" then there is probably something wrong with it. You should not do things for your partner because you feel obligated but because it is what you want to do. Communicating, listening, caring, ect should all be so natural a part of your relationship that the thought of it being "work" should not enter your head. Of course I have still never been married or in a serious long term relationship so...

 

[Ken Natton]

It seems to me that the OP needs to be careful of this idea that he has a genuine problem with obsession. It is much the same as people who are fundamentally spoiled and stubborn, who excuse their behaviour, as much to themselves as to anyone else, by describing themselves as OCD. The reality of someone who really has a clinically diagnosable condition of obsessive compulsion is that it is extremely destructive of relationships. Fortunately, very few people really have such a condition. I don’t wish to be out of step with the basic understanding and honest sympathy that the OP has been shown on this thread, but I don’t think that it helps to allow him to reinforce the idea that he has some psychological condition that is beyond his control. It is very unlikely that he does.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

When I was younger I was with my mom in the car and there was a commercial on the radio that said something along the lines of "You shouldn't work at your relationship, you should play at it" and my mother thought that was just horrible though I didn't understand why. I tried to explain it to her though I still don't think she understood. I said that if you view your relationship as "work" then there is probably something wrong with it. You should not do things for your partner because you feel obligated but because it is what you want to do. Communicating, listening, caring, ect should all be so natural a part of your relationship that the thought of it being "work" should not enter your head. Of course I have still never been married or in a serious long term relationship so...

And what about those times when one is in a bad mood or doesn't feel like compromising, or when there is an impass and you can't agree? Or what about when the partner is unreasonable because of health problems or problems at work? What about when your partner melts down because of a death in the family or some other crisis?

Work, effort, a willingness to try, the ability to compromise, the abiity to see the problem through the other person's eyes, call it what you like but it doesn't happen without effort. Imo, anything else is a fairy tale - a result of too much TV or a lack of honesty.

 

[Evo]

When I was younger I was with my mom in the car and there was a commercial on the radio that said something along the lines of "You shouldn't work at your relationship, you should play at it" and my mother thought that was just horrible though I didn't understand why. I tried to explain it to her though I still don't think she understood. I said that if you view your relationship as "work" then there is probably something wrong with it. You should not do things for your partner because you feel obligated but because it is what you want to do. Communicating, listening, caring, ect should all be so natural a part of your relationship that the thought of it being "work" should not enter your head.

This is exactly how I feel. Couples I know that are happily married are this way.

 

[netgypsy]

We have quite a number of very long lasting marriages in our family and several who have had three or more that failed. The differences.

The truly happy long lasting marriages really enjoy each other's company. They LIKE each other in addition to being in love. They LAUGH all the time and each partner has had to carry 100% at times and has done it gladly. One, whose spouse had a couple of particularly bad years used to tell him "It's a good thing you accumulated all those points over the years or I sure wouldn't put up with you right now!" But even that was said with love. A happily married couple does not let the other one hurt their feelings. They refuse to play games. When they disagree, they stick to the point and never globalize about other episodes in the past. And one of the absolutely biggest things is respect and willingness by either to do any job that needs to be done when it needs to be done regardless of whether the other could do it and isn't . That is never an issue with them. And when one sees the other doing some kind of chore, they pitch in and help or do something else that needs to be done. These marriages have a lot of variability in whether or not the wife works, whether the husband helps with the housework and so on, but whatever the normality is, if either is needed for something they don't usually do, it's not a point of argument. It gets done. So thinking about all the good marriages I'm familiar with and the bad ones, it seems that there is a complete absence of "I" and a concentration on "we" as a team who are always on the same side, that makes the good ones good, and the bad ones are exactly the opposite. There's always blame, one or both parties always looking to be sure the other is doing the fair share, looking for things wrong, not things that are good in their relationship. No trust, no honesty, no sense of humor, no joy, no respect, and, in the end, no love in the ones that failed. And it can be one or both that cause the failure. But of the three who had at least two bad marriages, the last one, finally was a good one, and they are still happily married. So don't give up hope if the first one or two or three were crappy. Some people are just not real lucky when it come to spouses.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

And what about those times when one is in a bad mood or doesn't feel like compromising, or when there is an impass and you can't agree? Or what about when the partner is unreasonable because of health problems or problems at work? What about when your partner melts down because of a death in the family or some other crisis?

Work, effort, a willingness to try, the ability to compromise, the abiity to see the problem through the other person's eyes, call it what you like but it doesn't happen without effort. Imo, anything else is a fairy tale - a result of too much TV or a lack of honesty.

Playing games takes effort. Going on vacation to a tropical island paradise takes effort. Its not a matter of effort, as all things except perhaps being a couch potato require effort. Its a matter of perceptions. For most people "work" refers to this thing that they have to do which they would rather not, an obligation rather than a desire. If dealing with your mate when things aren't peachy is more of an obligation to you than a desire to maintain your relationship then there is something wrong. Not necessarily irreparably wrong and reason to leave each other, but it is a symptom of something that ought to be taken care of rather than something that ought to be considered normal, in my opinion.

 

[pongo38]

'Lemon tree, very pretty, and the lemon flower is sweet, but the fruit of the poor lemon is impossible to eat'

 

[DaveC426913]

Is this a reference to lemon party?

 

[netgypsy]

Work becomes fun when you do it with someone you like and who is just FUN to be around.