Obtaining Differential Equations with Solution

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around obtaining differential equations that describe families of circles tangent to the x-axis, focusing on both general circles and those with a fixed radius. Participants explore the relationships between the parameters of the circles and their derivatives, aiming to derive the corresponding ordinary differential equations (ODEs).

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the equation of a circle tangent to the x-axis can be expressed as \((x-x_0)^2+(y-y_0)^2=r^2\), with \(y_0 = \pm r\).
  • Others argue that since there are two arbitrary constants (\(x_0\) and \(r\)), the resulting ODE will be second order.
  • It is suggested that differentiating the circle equation leads to equations that can be manipulated to eliminate \(x_0\) and \(r\) or express them in terms of \(y\) and its derivatives.
  • For circles with a fixed radius \(r\), some participants note that only one arbitrary constant (\(x_0\)) remains, leading to a first-order ODE.
  • There are requests for assistance in deriving the ODEs, indicating some participants find the process challenging.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the form of the circle equations and the need to eliminate constants to derive ODEs. However, the specific methods for achieving this and the resulting order of the ODEs are points of contention, with no consensus reached on the best approach.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the definitions of the parameters involved and the unresolved steps in the differentiation process. The discussion does not resolve how to effectively eliminate the constants in all cases.

cheatmenot
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(a) all circles tangent to x-axis?? with answer on the book [1+(y^{2})^2]^3=[yy''+1+(y')^2]^2

(b) all circles with fixed radius r and tangent to x-axis??

Thanks a bunch!
 
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I have moved your thread here to our Differential Equations forum.

(a) Can you begin by giving the family of circles tangent to the $x$-axis?
 
cheatmenot said:
(a) all circles tangent to x-axis?? with answer on the book [1+(y^{2})^2]^3=[yy''+1+(y')^2]^2

(b) all circles with fixed radius r and tangent to x-axis??

Thanks a bunch!

(a) The equation of a circle with center at $(x_0,y_0)$ and radius $r$ is: $$(x-x_0)^2+(y-y_0)^2=r^2$$
Since the circles should tangent to the $x-$axis, $y_0= \pm r$.
Therefore,
$$(x-x_0)^2+(y \mp r)^2=r^2 $$
$x_0$ and $r$ are arbitrary constants and must not appear in ODE which generates the family of the circles. Since there are two arbitrary constants to eliminate, the ODE will be second order.

Differentiating both sides with respect to $x$ we have the following:
$$2(x-x_0)+2(y \mp r)y'=0 $$

Differentiating again with respect to $x$ we have the following:
$$2+2(y')^2+2(y \mp r)y''=0 $$

Now you have to use these equations to get rid of $x_0$ and $r$, or to get rid of $(x-x_0)$ and $(y \mp r)$ by expressing them in terms of $y$ and its derivatives.
(b)The equation of a circle with center at $(x_0,y_0)$ and fixed radius $r$ is: $$(x-x_0)^2+(y-y_0)^2=r^2$$
Since the circles should tangent to the $x-$axis, $y_0= \pm r$.
Therefore,
$$(x-x_0)^2+(y \mp r)^2=r^2 $$
$x_0$ is an arbitrary constant and must not appear in ODE which generates the family of the circles. Since there is only one arbitrary constant to eliminate, the ODE will be 1st order.

Differentiating both sides with respect to $x$ we have the following:
$$2(x-x_0)+2(y \mp r)y'=0 $$

Now you have to use these equations to get rid of $x_0$, or to get rid of $(x-x_0)$ by expressing this in terms of $r$ and of $y$ and its derivatives.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
mathmari said:
(a) The equation of a circle with center at $(x_0,y_0)$ and radius $r$ is: $$(x-x_0)^2+(y-y_0)^2=r^2$$
Since the circles should tangent to the $x-$axis, $y_0= \pm r$.
Therefore,
$$(x-x_0)^2+(y \mp r)^2=r^2 $$
$x_0$ and $r$ are arbitrary constants and must not appear in ODE which generates the family of the circles. Since there are two arbitrary constants to eliminate, the ODE will be second order.

Differentiating both sides with respect to $x$ we have the following:
$$2(x-x_0)+2(y \mp r)y'=0 $$

Differentiating again with respect to $x$ we have the following:
$$2+2(y')^2+2(y \mp r)y''=0 $$

Now you have to use these equations to get rid of $x_0$ and $r$, or to get rid of $(x-x_0)$ and $(y \mp r)$ by expressing them in terms of $y$ and its derivatives.
(b)The equation of a circle with center at $(x_0,y_0)$ and fixed radius $r$ is: $$(x-x_0)^2+(y-y_0)^2=r^2$$
Since the circles should tangent to the $x-$axis, $y_0= \pm r$.
Therefore,
$$(x-x_0)^2+(y \mp r)^2=r^2 $$
$x_0$ is an arbitrary constant and must not appear in ODE which generates the family of the circles. Since there is only one arbitrary constant to eliminate, the ODE will be 1st order.

Differentiating both sides with respect to $x$ we have the following:
$$2(x-x_0)+2(y \mp r)y'=0 $$

Now you have to use these equations to get rid of $x_0$, or to get rid of $(x-x_0)$ by expressing this in terms of $r$ and of $y$ and its derivatives.

thank you for your answer but as i go over and answer them, i got it really hard in obtaining it.. can you do it for me sir?? i really needed it thanks a lot . .more power i need both ..
 
(a) We have the following equations:

$$(x-x_0)^2+(y \mp r)^2=r^2 \ \ \ (1)$$
$$2(x-x_0)+2(y \mp r)y'=0 \ \ \ (2)$$
$$2+2(y')^2+2(y \mp r)y''=0 \ \ \ (3)$$

Since we want to get get rid of $(x-x_0)$ and $(y \mp r)$ we do the following:

At the equation $(3)$ solve for $(y \mp r)$ and replace it at the equations $(1)$ and $(2)$.
Then solve at the equation $(2)$ for $(x-x_0)$ and relace this at the equation $(1)$. What do you get??(b)We have the following equations:

$$(x-x_0)^2+(y \mp r)^2=r^2 \ \ \ (*)$$
$$2(x-x_0)+2(y \mp r)y'=0 \ \ \ (**)$$

Since we want to get rid of $(x-x_0)$ we do the following:

At the equation $(**)$ solve for $(x-x_0)$ and replace it at the equation $(*)$. What do you get??
 
Last edited by a moderator:

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