On alien abduction, grays, and consciousness

[Ivan Seeking]

Only if you take the existence of aliens as a profession of faith. In this case I agree with you.

Please explain this. I'm not taking anything on faith; you are.

Witnessing is good for a court of law, but not for a scientific statement. Thousands of people affirm they have been abducted, some of them by benign aliens and some by hostile ones. How come that none of them was able to bring a small token from their stage on a spaceship? How is it that scientists have never had access to the alleged implants some abductees claim to have in their bodies?

I never said that we have scientific proof of anything.

As for evidence, prove to me that we would know it if we saw it. Also, even though I wouldn't trust him any more than I would a used car salesman, there is a surgeon who removes alleged alien implants as a matter or practice - I should say, he is the guy to call. We have had links in the past. To the best of my knowledge, the objects removed are mix of alloys that tell us nothing.

 

[SGT]

Please explain this. I'm not taking anything on faith; you are.

That's exactly the point: We really can't have any way to know. So to assign any sort of probability is a faith statement. Therefore, to assume that all claims of encouters are false is a faith statement.

I never said that we have scientific proof of anything.

As for evidence, prove to me that we would know it if we saw it. Also, even though I wouldn't trust him any more than I would a used car salesman, there is a surgeon who removes alleged alien implants as a matter or practice - I should say, he is the guy to call. We have had links in the past. To the best of my knowledge, the objects removed are mix of alloys that tell us nothing.

Are those alloys unknown to us? I would be convinced that a material has extraterrestrial origin if we could not produce it with our current technology. Two examples come to my mind: supercrystals and carbon nanotubes. We have been able to produce tiny quantities of those materials. If I saw a plate made of supercrystal or a big array of long nanotubes, I would be forced to believe in their alien origin.

 

[ubavontuba]

Are those alloys unknown to us? I would be convinced that a material has extraterrestrial origin if we could not produce it with our current technology. Two examples come to my mind: supercrystals and carbon nanotubes. We have been able to produce tiny quantities of those materials. If I saw a plate made of supercrystal or a big array of long nanotubes, I would be forced to believe in their alien origin.

That's a very good point. Likewise, how stupid do the "aliens" have to be to implant devices that are readily found and removed?

Claims are easy to make. If I hadn't been awakened from my experience by my family, I have little doubt that I might be one of the claimants... however I'd have no proof.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I still don't understand your point in quoting me. All that I have ever said is that we can't know the probability.

Are those alloys unknown to us? I would be convinced that a material has extraterrestrial origin if we could not produce it with our current technology. Two examples come to my mind: supercrystals and carbon nanotubes. We have been able to produce tiny quantities of those materials. If I saw a plate made of supercrystal or a big array of long nanotubes, I would be forced to believe in their alien origin.

I didn't say they were proof. They are physical objects that [it appears] have been surgically removed from people who claim to have been abducted by aliens. Unless you can prove where they came from or what they are, and how they got into these people, we seem to have a mystery. You keep confusing my statement that "we don't know", with that of "this is true". Do I believe that these people have been abducted by ET? Since I can't know how likely it is that ET is really here, I have no way to judge the likelihood of abductions. Could 1:100 or 1:10,000 stories be true; can't say.

Also, some of this stuff does seem to have micro-structures.

As for nanotubes; please, do you really expect to recognize anything from beings that could be millions of years more advanced than us. It could be that we wouldn't recognize alien technology as such, even if we had it in our hands.

The point is that you can make whatever leap of faith you wish, for or against, but that doesn't make it truth.

 

[SGT]

I still don't understand your point in quoting me. All that I have ever said is that we can't know the probability.

I quoted you because you said that I was taking things on faith. You were the first to mention faith

I didn't say they were proof. They are physical objects that [it appears] have been surgically removed from people who claim to have been abducted by aliens. Unless you can prove where they came from or what they are, and how they got into these people, we seem to have a mystery. You keep confusing my statement that "we don't know", with that of "this is true". Do I believe that these people have been abducted by ET? Since I can't know how likely it is that ET is really here, I have no way to judge the likelihood of abductions. Could 1:100 or 1:10,000 stories be true; can't say.

Of course this is not proof. The only proof would be a spaceship coming to Earth with world press coverage. But if the material was unknown to us it would be strong evidence.

Also, some of this stuff does seem to have micro-structures.

Seem? Has any materials expert examined it?

As for nanotubes; please, do you really expect to recognize anything from beings that could be millions of years more advanced than us. It could be that we wouldn't recognize alien technology as such, even if we had it in our hands.

The point is that you can make whatever leap of faith you wish, for or against, but that doesn't make it truth.

I cited nanotubes and supercrystals because they are structures we would recognize and we are certain that cannot be made in large quantities on Earth. If there was a completely unknown material, the evidence would be still more overwelming.

 

[PIT2]

The website of the implant removal chap is www.alienscalpel.com[/URL]

Info about the implants removed so far can be found here:
[url]http://www.ufocom.org/pages/v_fr/m_articles/Implants/implants_GB_us.htm[/url]

 

[KittKatt333]

I went through a very strange and unusual encounter in Boulder Colorado 2007. I was staying at a friends house and ended up crashing out, earlier that night I was seeing some strange things such as angels wings on tall men but at a blink of an eye they dissapeared. I was going through hard times at that time and thought I was dilusional. What occurred later I still can't explain but would love to hear feedback as I think of it quite often.

When I slept I had a dream about this grey alien (and no this alien did not look like the ones I see on the internet at all) It had on a shimmering red suit, red tentacles for a mouth and black eyes. I believe that it was shorter than I and it didn't talk it only moved around 3D icons one of which was a pyramid or 3D triangle with a lot of colors on it. It was teaching me how to move these things with my mind, and then let me go back to the apartment. When I woke up I thought it was just a dream.

Almost immediately to my waking up a strange man came over to my friends house, and I guess that he knew him from a long time ago. He was talking about a prayer group going on a couple blocks away, and there was a huge ceremony that night with people praying and chanting. He looked at the crystal on my car and was talking to my friend saying she has that crystal, that's cheating ( I don't have the crystal anymore I gave it to a friend because I thought he needed it for some strange reason ). He then proceeded to sit by me and show me a red ipod with pictures on it. Guess what? The same alien was on one of the pictures in that white room in red jump suit. I was terrified and kind of defensive because I felt like my personal space was invaded. He showed my pictures of this same woman all through time telling me she was 'hot' and had been everywhere. How did he get those pictures on an ipod? I am a graphic designer and they really didn't seem like they were edited but who knows right? But how do you explain the alien?

We were invited to this guys apartment which so happened to be across the street. I looked on his computer screen and there he showed me 4 different rings traveling in circles. He pointed to the green ring... it was spinning around and around again then it broke open in fire and then recreated itself... He said this is you here. I was offended because I didn't like how he knew so much and was very disgruntled that he knew me and my planet more than myself I called him an insult and left. Looking back I regret it, but he has others check on me from time to time. I called him Lucifer because he took me against my will but he knew I was scared and he wanted to teach me peace. My life has changed for the better since then and they have tried to teach me in several dreams. When I think fondly of them my life seems to go better, when I go against the grain I get almost forced to go the right way. All of this leads up to something but what? Who are they and how do I fit into this? I feel cosmically connected and don't know how to be taught by them if I am afraid. Should I drop my guard or should I pretend nothing ever happened?

 

[seinet]

they try d to get me and my mate. we saw a strange light beem from the ground to up. small at the bottom large under the craft witch was strange it should be the other way round that got our attention. as soon as we said what's that it hoverd staight over us. its weird it was a faint light sorce just looked like a light been shon in the air. hovering over us we could se lights. it was like a watch face glowing in the dark lines on the underside large then medium then small and repeated with a small one just the same as the outer one in the centre of the underside. no noise nothing no strange feelings for about 20 to 30 seconds we stood under the craft befor we said what shall we do. we just ran 400 yards first looked back and it was still over head we ran again to a friends house it just followed us there then we ran to my friends ho i was with house and we burst into the living room and got the familys out side to se the craft which was hovering the house we just ran into. when we where all out side 8 of us the craft moved back sat there for about a min then shot off due north then back again the the some spot then it shot south at a redicules speed from 0 to 2000 crazy fast then back to the same spot again sat there for 5 sec then it lifted of up into space direction at a slow speed. i have read loads of ufo books and i have never seen or red about one like that imagine a glow in the dark frizby that's lost allot of glow so you can just about se it. its a faint glow
domed on top. the hole craft glowed around the edges and there were only lights that looked like a glow in the dark clockface under it.
has anyone else been chased followed or seen one of these craft. it would be nice to know. i guess buy the glowing that this craft is highly charged and utillises electrical de gravataion as shown in capacitor experiments .

 

[Ryan_m_b]

i guess buy the glowing that this craft is highly charged and utillises electrical de gravataion as shown in capacitor experiments .

There is no such thing

 

[rogerl]

After all this time. I still can't decide if all these reports are:

1. Mental Aberrations
2. Technological Visitors from Parallel Universe
3. Native visitors from Parallel Universe (Native in the sense of Philip Imbrogno "Vengeful Djinns" (new book) where creatures have their consciousness evolved not on matter but pure energy... so these Djinns were said to be made of plasma or "smokeless fire" in Koran and they are disguising as aliens
4. Government Mind Control Experiments?

Which is more likely? I still can't decide although if all those reports were true. Combination of 3 and 4 is more possible. Albert Budden has once written a book that all these UFO Encounters is due to some kind of allergy in the patients causing mental aberrations.. hmm..

 

[Ryan_m_b]

After all this time. I still can't decide if all these reports are:

1. Mental Aberrations
2. Technological Visitors from Parallel Universe
3. Native visitors from Parallel Universe (Native in the sense of Philip Imbrogno "Vengeful Djinns" (new book) where creatures have their consciousness evolved not on matter but pure energy... so these Djinns were said to be made of plasma or "smokeless fire" in Koran and they are disguising as aliens
4. Government Mind Control Experiments?

Which is more likely? I still can't decide although if all those reports were true. Combination of 3 and 4 is more possible. Albert Budden has once written a book that all these UFO Encounters is due to some kind of allergy in the patients causing mental aberrations.. hmm..

Why would you have any of these as your only options? Please explain your reasoning. As far as I can tell there is no logic behind 2, 3 and 4. Unless you have evidence or a logical answer you can't reel off a list of options you think most likely.

 

[rogerl]

Why would you have any of these as your only options? Please explain your reasoning. As far as I can tell there is no logic behind 2, 3 and 4. Unless you have evidence or a logical answer you can't reel off a list of options you think most likely.

I read Jacque Vallee's books. He is a scientist and unbiased investigator. These are not typical bolts and nuts objects.. more like some kind of exotic matter. Maybe our physics can catch up someday. In the meantime, encounters continue and they are so numerous already.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

I read Jacque Vallee's books. He is a scientist and unbiased investigator.

I'm going to have to ask for provide evidence of experiments and testing he has done in the form of a peer-reviewed paper in a reputable journal. There are many people these days calling themselves "scientists" who have never done any work, interviewing people and speculating is not science.

These are not typical bolts and nuts objects.. more like some kind of exotic matter

Do you have any evidence that such things exist or is this more speculation?

In the meantime, encounters continue and they are so numerous already.

Anecdotal evidence often contradictory or conflicting with nothing but the persons say so. Why has no UFO or alien ever been caught in a crowded street with CCTV? Why is it always blury smudges on photos or abductions at night in the middle of nowhere?
There are far more people in the world who report seeing/feeling God, that doesn't mean such a thing exists

 

[rogerl]

I'm going to have to ask for provide evidence of experiments and testing he has done in the form of a peer-reviewed paper in a reputable journal. There are many people these days calling themselves "scientists" who have never done any work, interviewing people and speculating is not science.



Do you have any evidence that such things exist or is this more speculation?



Anecdotal evidence often contradictory or conflicting with nothing but the persons say so. Why has no UFO or alien ever been caught in a crowded street with CCTV? Why is it always blury smudges on photos or abductions at night in the middle of nowhere?
There are far more people in the world who report seeing/feeling God, that doesn't mean such a thing exists

I once studied UFOs, investigated abductees, read hundreds of books about it. But I left the field as tactical retreat because I realized we are dealing with an intelligence that is more than extra-terrestrials. They are made of energy that is beyond the Standard Model. And they can interface with the brain and mess up one's sanity. So to avoid insanity. I just left it and ceased all contacts with all abductees. If I shared any detail. You'd just tell me it's anecdotes. One must walk the walk and be in the field and experience them. And this forum is not to entertain possibilities but to debunk them at will (because people here already concluded they were not real).

The reason UFOs were not caught in crowded street with CCTV or images blurry is because they can scan 1 mile perimeter for any monitoring device and avoid them. They are more effectively if they are clandestine. This is because they are not your typical alien, and it's useless to appear at the backyard of the white house.

About scientists putting paper in peer-review journals. Who will be the peers to review them since all of you physicists rejected already any investigation or study of UFOs and also concluded they were all hoaxes. About Jacques. Jacques Vallee is a reputable scientist. There are many others. But unfortunately, there are not a whole lot. The reason is because physics is a compartmentalized field. For example. Brian Cox and Lisa Randall work at Particle Accelerators. Witten at the Center for Advanced Studies. They focus on their area of expertise and the institution limit their reach to other fields. Physics community are like a flock of birds. They dwell on popular topics and rejects anything outside of the circle. They outcast members who are outside. This is why those scientists left to study UFOs are those who were rejected from institutions. This means they don't have support from you guys because you only support those working at Large Hadron Collider for instantce. Let's take the case of Stanton Friedman. His biography is:

"Nuclear Physicist-Lecturer Stanton T. Friedman received his BSc. and MSc. Degrees in physics from the University of Chicago in 1955 and 1956. He was employed for 14 years as a nuclear physicist by such companies as GE, GM, Westinghouse, TRW Systems, Aerojet General Nucleonics, and McDonnell Douglas working in such highly advanced, classified, eventually canceled programs as nuclear aircraft, fission and fusion rockets, and various compact nuclear powerplants for space and terrestrial applications."

Then he went to study UFOs and was immediately treated as outcast by the physics community. This is because the physics community only look for phenomena that is supported by the Standard Model and some extra like Higgs, Supersymmetry, changing neutrino. This is all they want to look for. They narrow their views on them only. When thousands report UFOs. They treat them as nuts because it is not in the Standard Model.

Now physicists are struggling on the unification. Lee Smolin said there is zero experimental support on string theory. Physicists don't even know what form the M-theory may take or what is its fundamental principle. See his book "Trouble with Physics" for the details.

You know what. UFOs may offer clue to what form the final unification may take. Superstring research discovered not just new exotic stuff like strings and brane. What if there are others. That is. What if UFOs are made up of brane-like stuff or other exotic ingredients beyond the Standard Model??! (clue, clue)

It is possible that physicists would only understand UFOs after M-theory is formulated. But without any guiding principles or any clues, How can they fortulate them in the first place? What if they miss M-theory? Then physics will continue to reject UFOs for the next 200 years.