Open or closed Casimir system?

In summary, the Casimir effect is a force that exists between two plates when they are in vacuum. It is not an open or closed system, because virtual energy is involved.
  • #1
gildomar
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If you had the Casimir effect pushing two plates together, would that be an open or closed system? And why? I haven't been able to find a satisfying answer/explanation to that.
 
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  • #2
gildomar said:
would that be an open or closed system?

What is your definition of these terms?
 
  • #3
That's the thing: I'm not sure how they'd be defined here. It's obviously easy if you have a classical system, but things get fuzzy when you have virtual energy.
 
  • #4
gildomar said:
It's obviously easy if you have a classical system, but things get fuzzy when you have virtual energy.

I'm not sure why you would think so. But let's start with the classical definition: what do you think that is?
 
  • #5
Isn't it closed if no energy/matter is entering or leaving the system, and open otherwise?
 
  • #6
gildomar said:
Isn't it closed if no energy/matter is entering or leaving the system, and open otherwise?

That'll work. Now, if we have two plates sitting in vacuum, nothing else present, what energy or matter could be entering or leaving the system?
 
  • #7
Possibly the virtual photons. But due to their nature, I'm not sure if that would constitute entering/leaving the system, or if they would be considered to be already part of the system. Hence my confusion.
 
  • #8
gildomar said:
Possibly the virtual photons.

The virtual photons are part of the system. They aren't coming in from outside.

More precisely, "virtual photons" is only a heuristic way of describing what is causing the Casimir Effect. A better way is to say that the presence of the plates changes the vacuum state between the plates, in such a way as to create a force that attracts the plates to each other.

But no matter how you describe it, it should be evident that there is nothing entering or leaving the system as a whole; you could draw a boundary around the whole apparatus and measure energy flow across the boundary and find that it is zero. That's part of the specification of the scenario.
 
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  • #9
Fair enough. Would that also be related to it apparently being a conservative force?
 
  • #10
gildomar said:
Would that also be related to it apparently being a conservative force?

Not really; conservative forces are not limited to closed systems, unless you want to consider the entire universe as part of the "system".
 
  • #11
Fair point. :P
 

1. What is a Casimir system?

A Casimir system is a theoretical concept in physics that involves two parallel conductive plates placed in a vacuum. The plates interact with each other due to the fluctuations of virtual particles in the vacuum, which create a force between the plates called the Casimir force.

2. What is an open Casimir system?

An open Casimir system is one in which the plates are not perfect conductors, meaning that there is some leakage of particles through the plates. This leakage affects the strength and properties of the Casimir force between the plates.

3. What is a closed Casimir system?

A closed Casimir system is one in which the plates are perfect conductors, meaning that no particles can pass through them. In this type of system, the Casimir force is not affected by leakage, and the force can be accurately predicted using mathematical equations.

4. How is the Casimir force measured in an open or closed system?

The Casimir force can be measured using a variety of techniques, such as atomic force microscopy or optical trapping. These methods involve measuring the displacement or deflection of the plates due to the Casimir force and using this data to calculate the force itself.

5. What are the potential applications of Casimir systems?

Casimir systems have potential applications in various fields, such as nanotechnology, quantum computing, and material science. The Casimir force can be used to manipulate and control the distance between surfaces at the nanoscale, which could lead to advancements in technology and materials with unique properties.

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