Option 12: What Happens After Death?

[easyrider]

Yeah, like what you believe will happen after death, does that have any effect on what actually will happen. Just another question to put out there. We won't actually know anything til we die, so all we can do is philosophize.

 

[JoeDawg]

Yeah, like what you believe will happen after death, does that have any effect on what actually will happen. Just another question to put out there. We won't actually know anything til we die, so all we can do is philosophize.

Thats not philosophizing that's fantasizing.

 

[rewebster]

Thats not philosophizing that's fantasizing.

yeah, but, so is 'riding a beam of light'

 

[baywax]

"Death is..." never having to say you're sorry.

"Death is..." not smelling yourself rot.

"Death is..." flowers in a sunny spot... on a gravesite.

"Death is... traveling at the speed of nothing.

 

[easyrider]

You look like fantasy. All philosophy is is using logic to try to explain reality and nature. We know nothing about death. All we can do is guess to the best of our ability.

 

[baywax]

You look like fantasy. All philosophy is is using logic to try to explain reality and nature. We know nothing about death. All we can do is guess to the best of our ability.

That's what this thread is about and why its in the philosophy section.

 

[rewebster]

"Die, v.:

To stop sinning suddenly."

Elbert Hubbard

 

[laurelelizabeth]

Reincarnation. Souls cannot be created or destroyed. So obviously they are re used. It gives us something to do after we die.

I guess when the Earth reaches its carrying capacity, that will also be when all the souls are used up. Or maybe the souls are getting spread thinner and thinner as the population grows...

 

[ShadowWorks]

Reincarnation. Souls cannot be created or destroyed. So obviously they are re used. It gives us something to do after we die.

I guess when the Earth reaches its carrying capacity, that will also be when all the souls are used up. Or maybe the souls are getting spread thinner and thinner as the population grows...

That sounds like the Guf or the famous quote from Dawn of the Dead.

"When there's no more room in Hell, the dead will walk the Earth"

I guess real estate in Hell must be as expensive as Hell :)

It stands to reason that Death is not real, Energy cannot be created or destroyed, I put it to all here that life cannot be created or destroyed, it just moves around like atoms.

 

[easyrider]

I doubt that there are souls. I think if shadowworks idea is true, that life can't be destroyed then I think it isn't souls that are the "us". If there were souls why did nothing happen before we were born or so it seems. If we had souls Id think something wouldve happened before we were born. That and there being no concrete proof for a deity makes me atheist and makes me believe nothing will happen after life.

 

[baywax]

I doubt that there are souls. I think if shadowworks idea is true, that life can't be destroyed then I think it isn't souls that are the "us". If there were souls why did nothing happen before we were born or so it seems. If we had souls Id think something wouldve happened before we were born. That and there being no concrete proof for a deity makes me atheist and makes me believe nothing will happen after life.

This is a fairly egocentric view of death. When a bunch of dinosaurs died they left cool fossils... in fact, we run our cars on the remains of their habitat. Something has happened after their death. Ever heard of "soilent green"?

 

[easyrider]

How does that support that they are experiencing anything after death though?

 

[baywax]

How does that support that they are experiencing anything after death though?

It wasn't written to support the idea of an experience after life. It was written to point out how events do continue after one dies. And some of these events inextricably involve one's remains.

makes me believe nothing will happen after life.

Your claim is that nothing happens after you die. You just may be missing everything. No one knows for sure.

Ghouls and zombies might have a different account of the "after life experience". Are there any on board?!-)

 

[rewebster]

Your claim is that nothing happens after you die. You just may be missing everything. No one knows for sure.

There is a great Zen Master whose advice and question may apply here:


"You've got to ask yourself one question:















'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do you punk?"

 

[Esnas]

I doubt that there are souls. I think if shadowworks idea is true, that life can't be destroyed then I think it isn't souls that are the "us". If there were souls why did nothing happen before we were born or so it seems. If we had souls Id think something wouldve happened before we were born...

If by souls you mean the continuation of the personality of the deceased, I would doubt this also. My guess is that the energy that became focussed as a unique person gets diffused throughout the universe after the body dies. This energy may exist (in or outside of the temperal dimension) in this way until it becomes refocussed as another consciousness.

 

[zankaon]

Like a door opening ...

Like a door opening and closing,
with eternity on either side;
what is our statement nailed to the door?
And is it a proper statement?

 

[Ironside]

I think it's oblivion. You ever sleep through the night without dreaming? The next morning you can remember nothing about when you slept, cause all you see is black? You can't even tell time when you're sleeping, so imagine sleeping with no dreams, FOREVER! if that makes any sense.

 

[baywax]

There is a great Zen Master whose advice and question may apply here:


"You've got to ask yourself one question:















'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do you punk?"

More of a metalhead dude.

 

[baywax]

I think it's oblivion. You ever sleep through the night without dreaming? The next morning you can remember nothing about when you slept, cause all you see is black? You can't even tell time when you're sleeping, so imagine sleeping with no dreams, FOREVER! if that makes any sense.

"Forever" would imply a sense of time and a sense of time, as far as we know, only comes with being alive. "Being dead" is a misnomer in that one is no longer "being" when one's life has ended.

 

[easyrider]

Yeah, my best guess would be like sleeping but exclude the dreaming and any neural activity. I wouldn't say an experience, more like a non-experience. Scientifically Id say my hypothesis is alright, but spiritually, I don't know. Anything could happen after death, all we can do is speculate, and hope the desperate assumption of someone tending the light at the end of the tunnel is true. I don't count on it though, you can if you want but if its gone happen then its gone happen. I highly doubt a diety would base his opinion on where you go because of your beliefs.

 

[rewebster]

Yeah, my best guess would be like sleeping but exclude the dreaming and any neural activity. I wouldn't say an experience, more like a non-experience. Scientifically Id say my hypothesis is alright, but spiritually, I don't know. Anything could happen after death, all we can do is speculate, and hope the desperate assumption of someone tending the light at the end of the tunnel is true. I don't count on it though, you can if you want but if its gone happen then its gone happen. I highly doubt a diety would base his opinion on where you go because of your beliefs.

but THAT is the way religions set it up---take it or leave it

 

[baywax]

Yeah, my best guess would be like sleeping but exclude the dreaming and any neural activity. I wouldn't say an experience, more like a non-experience. Scientifically Id say my hypothesis is alright, but spiritually, I don't know. Anything could happen after death, all we can do is speculate, and hope the desperate assumption of someone tending the light at the end of the tunnel is true. I don't count on it though, you can if you want but if its gone happen then its gone happen. I highly doubt a diety would base his opinion on where you go because of your beliefs.

Many would tell you that its your beliefs that determine where you go in life and death, not your deity.

They say that some people are living a 1000 hells and will continue to experience them after life. If there are a thousand hells, how many heavens are there?

The buddhists figure there's one nirvana for all.

Would that make nirvana a singularity?

When buddhists try to reach nirvana they have to strip away all emotion, earthly ties and all knowledge of everything. There can be no pain or pleasure because you've basically become a mineral and that's it. This is expected to continue after life and that's nirvana. I'd say that's about as close as it gets to what death is like. Its like being a rock if you don't leave behind a lot of nervous em signatures in your... wake.-)

 

[easyrider]

That actually sounds like a very reasonable hypothesis. Being dead couldn't be as terrible and scary as people make it out to be, I have no problem with there being no experience after death, no stress. You wouldn't be missing anything anyway.

 

[keinve]

i would have to say oblivion. there is no logical basis for an after life or for reincarnation.

 

[WhatMeWorry]

The poll interested me. About 1/3 think you just stop, 1/3 don't know/care, and 1/3 think they might go somewhere. The simulation hypothesis wouldn't have existed 20 years ago.

We just stop. Why are we any different than, say, Koko the gorilla? Heck we almost were Koko 500,000 years ago or so. Did we go anywhere then when we died? Actually I think Koko did die recently. Surely she just stopped as well.

The visible universe is about 13 billion years old, the Earth about 4 billion. Primitive life probably started many times, only to be repeatedly extinguished as large chunks of space debris smashed into the earth, boiling off the seas. Finally Jupiter finished vacuuming up the largest pieces, and life finally started on the long path to us. Did that early life when it died go anywhere? When did that start? At BC 2,000,000,000? Yeah sure I know it was BC 0.

We're just meat that recently got smart. I think it is arrogant to think we are anything else.

 

[Loren Booda]

With a fantastically strong telescope, we could in principle see beings living who had died many years ago.

 

[GleefulNihilism]

I see death as the kick in the ass that gets you to move while you're still alive. I don't know, I don't care, just go live dammit.

 

[j0nis0n]

It's just a thought, but how about this: What if we do reincarnate but as another species of beings, who live simultaneously with humans, living on a different planet. and we are absolutely oblivious of our previous lives? it was pretty interesting to ponder.

 

[easyrider]

I believe the obvious would be oblivion. Overall I remain agnostic because you really can't fully know anything, but if I had to guess I would say nothing happens after death. You lose consciousness and everything that comes with it. Just look at someone that's dead and someone that's been hit real hard and knocked out. There won't be much difference except one has a beating heart, working organs and flowing blood. Id be willing to bet their experiences arent quite different either. There is no evidence at all for afterlife or dieties. There isn't a reason to believe in any of it except your gut feeling.

 

[RichardBlank]

Plenty of time to sleep

Interesting subject and spooky at the same time.

The older I get, the more I realize that I must wake up early and go to bed late.Try to live each day and enjoy my time. Smile often. The things I worry about really will not make a difference in the end.

To answer the big question, we are going to have a good rest. Until proven otherwise, I believe that we will just slide away and become a bright memory.

Richard

 

[Huckleberry]

Seems to me the only logical answers are the last two above. All the others are uncertifiable right now. I vote "I honestly don't know", but that doesn't stop me from being a wishful thinker.

 

[baywax]

With a fantastically strong telescope, we could in principle see beings living who had died many years ago.

This telescope would be equipped with some kind of filter that allows the visual cortex to see electromagnetic waves, maybe?!

Why would the em waves of a deceased person have to be far away? Come to think of it, these waves probably hang on to the familiar waves of the environment they have become accustomed to. This may explain "ghosts" in "haunted" places. The persons who lived there died and still remain as em waves... mostly unaware of their semi-physical state. I say unaware because, as far as I know, awareness is a result of living tissues interacting with the stimulus of their environment.

 

[ptalar]

With a fantastically strong telescope, we could in principle see beings living who had died many years ago.

I have often thought about you said above. I wish I could be at least 4 light years away from Earth with a fantastically powerful scope and see my deceased son again. That is the problem. You have to be light years away almost instantly to catch the light reflections of the, dead, in the present, going about their daily business before they died. I guess if I could move faster than the speed of light I could go back in the past and talk to him? I would of liked to tell him the err of his ways.

 

[jim mcnamara]

I view death as the outcome of the Second Law of Thermodynamics - from a couch potato scientist's world view: entropy wins.

 

[easyrider]

I don't know if I am dumber than the rest or what, but jim, please explain what you mean I don't get it.

 

[Suudsu2200]

Another Option

Alright, this one may be harder to swallow than Oblivion. What If your still conscious after death? Creepy Huh?

 

[baywax]

I have often thought about you said above. I wish I could be at least 4 light years away from Earth with a fantastically powerful scope and see my deceased son again. That is the problem. You have to be light years away almost instantly to catch the light reflections of the, dead, in the present, going about their daily business before they died. I guess if I could move faster than the speed of light I could go back in the past and talk to him? I would of liked to tell him the err of his ways.

I think that there would be a problem with moving faster than the speed of light because that would cause you... or what was left of you, to end up where you were before you hit the speed of light and/or faster. I'm only saying this because it is theorized that if it were possible to move at light speed one would experience time slowing and stopping. I am simply extrapolating that theory and calculating that if one were able to experience traveling faster than light... one would immediately be pushed back in time, beyond "c" which is where time stops.

Special relativity tells us that the faster the rocket ship goes, the slower their clock goes relative to ours. As the rocket ship approaches the speed of light, their clock seems to all but stop. A rocket ship can never actually reach the speed of light, it turns out, because that would require an infinite energy. The equations tell us that if it *did*, the clock on that rocket ship would stop all together.

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2005-03/1110902524.Ph.r.html

Also, the light reflecting off of once living people is only light. But the em waves they generate with their synaptic chatter, and the individual noise from each cell, are a larger percentage of who the person was before death. Being able to read these signatures would be the closest we can get to observing someone's "after death". Hence I'd like to introduce you to the newly invented em glasses. You may remember "X-ray" glasses and the fun you may have had with them. Well now there's "em glasses"! You can use them to communicate with passed loved ones or just keep up to date on the affairs of passed celebrities. Be the papparazi to the dead stars. Only $99.99 in select stores (may cause blindness, severe headaches, acne and nose bloat. If nose bleed continues remove glasses. If haunting continues after removing glasses call our hotline for counseling at a special rate of $899 per hour).

 

[ptalar]

Yeah. I guess it would be fun to dream about making the impossible possible.

 

[easyrider]

Yeahh, that's definitely not happening in a million years. But anyway, I wonder what made people start thinking that there was an afterlife. I am almost positive with normal logic you`d end up at nothing after death. Atleast when I think about it, I don't see how you could wind up thinking there is some gigantic old man way up in the sky controlling everything we do. I highly doubt there is anything after death and I am a perfectly happy and non-troubled person. I have a few problems in my life just like anyone else but nothing out of the ordinary.

 

[ptalar]

I believe religion gives us the impetus to go on. To strive. To be a better person. It strives for the better person by telling us there is an afterlife where we will live for eternity. But how we live our present life on this planet will dictate how we will live for eternity. I am sure anybody who has grown up with Chrisitanity understands what I am saying.

So I believe man creates this illusion of an afterlife in order to live in a somewhat civilized condition (better than a state of nature). It gives us the will to go on. If we all came to the realization that death was final I believe we would go into chaos. Live for the moment. Its only one ride.

I am now of the mind that death is final. I just don't see an afterlife and I believe there would be more evidence other than faith if it did exist. I may be wrong.

As an opposing thought maybe these other dimensions that string theory needs may lead to an understanding of our existence and whether there is an afterlife for our existence if we do have an existence.

Any thoughts.

 

[easyrider]

Yeah, I definitely wouldn't mind living for eternity but it is just too good to be true. Dont get me wrong though I have no problem going to sleep for an infinite amount of time.

 

[JoeDawg]

I believe religion gives us the impetus to go on.

I believe religion is dogmatic indoctrination about clearly impossible, fantastical and primitive beliefs, and that it is detrimental to modern society and actually holds us back from achieving so many worth while things... like stem cell research, like vaccinating children against disease, like taking responsibility for the size of our populations.. like acting like adults.

I'm an atheist, not a sociopath, I don't need some childish fear of hell to keep me from killing everyone in sight, and I don't need some Santa Claus like sugar daddy in the sky to motivate me to get all I can out of life for me and those I care about.

The only impetus I see religion giving people is towards a primitive form of tribal nationalism and hatred of people who are different, because since they are different they are by definition 'evil'.

 

[sysreset]

I believe religion gives us the impetus to go on. To strive. To be a better person. It strives for the better person by telling us there is an afterlife where we will live for eternity.

I wish you would explain. I do not believe in any religions or afterlives but I feel I have a very strong impetus to go on, to strive, to be the best person I can be. My impetus comes from, I suppose, either an inate animal drive or a sense of purpose to create a better world. Religion might tell people to do good things, but what actually makes them WANT to do them? Is it really the religion or is is something else??

 

[ptalar]

Yeah, I definitely wouldn't mind living for eternity but it is just too good to be true. Dont get me wrong though I have no problem going to sleep for an infinite amount of time.

Your funny easyrider. I can go either way also.

 

[ptalar]

I wish you would explain. I do not believe in any religions or afterlives but I feel I have a very strong impetus to go on, to strive, to be the best person I can be. My impetus comes from, I suppose, either an inate animal drive or a sense of purpose to create a better world. Religion might tell people to do good things, but what actually makes them WANT to do them? Is it really the religion or is is something else??

Sysreset,

If there is no god, no afterlife, then what is the point of our existence? I read an article somewhere that indicates man has a God Gene. A gene where man must have a God no matter what so that he can focus, strive and move forward in life, give him a reason for going on. Otherwise, there is no initiative. That gene, if it exists, is what has driven man to achieve and progress throughout history. If we didn't have the gene then we would probably not be where we are today.

Of course some of us who are more "enlightened" and are not sure of God's existence can still strive and achieve and move forward and be a better person because that is how they are. Its not the goal of an eternity in heaven that drives them. It can be self actualization, wealth, the capacity to good as well as evil.

That is about the best I can explain the paradox of the need for God causing man to achieve and behave in a civilized way vs an innate instinct to achieve without believing in God. The Western World appears to be getting less religious so we may be more incentivized by the vices of life and don't realize it.

 

[EnumaElish]

For the conscious self death is a dreamless sleep -- verbatim from a friend who technically died and was resuscitated.

There may be a part of my being that will outlive my corporeal existence, but it is not equivalent to "me" -- only part of "me."

 

[sysreset]

The Western World appears to be getting less religious so we may be more incentivized by the vices of life and don't realize it.

I think that religious and non-religious people alike are motivated by many things other than vices. People seem to derive pleasure from helping others, and also from positive experiences such as creativity, productivity, and discovery. I think the secular world is rich with positive lifestyles and moral people. Of course, I wouldn't claim that the secular world is 100% pure or anything, but neither is the religious world...

 

[rewebster]

No one has picked "A Chance to Roam the Earth "----a lot of people do roam the Earth (if they are able) before they die as an adventure--maybe that's what they do 'after' too?

 

[sysreset]

No one has picked "A Chance to Roam the Earth "----a lot of people do roam the Earth (if they are able) before they die as an adventure--maybe that's what they do 'after' too?

The problem may be the word "Earth". It may be too confining for the serious explorers out there.

 

[rewebster]

another option:

A chance to be stardust (in another 5 to 10 billion years)