Orbital Period of the Earth where the Sun's Mass Changes

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the orbital period of the Earth in the context of a hypothetical scenario where the Sun loses a fraction of its mass. The problem involves applying gravitational equations and Kepler's Third Law to understand the implications of this mass loss on Earth's orbit.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the relationship between orbital speed, distance, and mass, considering angular momentum and energy equations. There are attempts to derive expressions for the new semi-major axis and orbital period following the mass loss.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided hints and clarifications regarding the relationships between variables, particularly emphasizing that the distance and velocity of the Earth at the moment of mass loss remain unchanged. There is ongoing exploration of how these properties affect the future trajectory of the Earth.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential confusion regarding the use of symbols for different distances and the implications of mass loss on orbital mechanics. The discussion highlights the need for careful consideration of definitions and assumptions in the problem setup.

Maik
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Member advised to use the provided formatting template when starting a new thread in a homework forum.
Hey,
this is going to be my first post here so I'm not sure how it all works, so just tell me if I do something out of order please. Anyway I have been given this homework assignment and part of it was the question stated below.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The speed (v) of a planet in orbit around a star of mass M is related to its orbital distance (r) and orbital semimajor axis (a) by

v2=GM((2/r)-(1/a))

Use this equation to show that if the Sun instantly lost a fraction f of its mass, reducing its mass from M to M(1 − f), then the Earth’s (originally circular) orbit would have a period of

T =((1 − f)/(1 − 2f))3/2 years

[You may assume Kepler’s Third Law: orbital period is proportional to orbital semimajor
axis to the power 3/2.]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Equations that I am supposed to use are stated in the problem, however I also considered the equation for the angular momentum and energy relating the kinetic energy and the gravitational potential energy:
L=mvr and E=1/2mv2 -GMm/r

I started off by trying to find an expression for a and the using that in Keplars 3rd rule, however rather than simplifying the whole expression to what they asked it made it more of a mess. I then attempted to solve it for the point at which r=a (initially) and then the same for the new orbit. By then considering the conservation of angular momentum I found an expression on the new a (calling it c) as follows: c= a/(1-f) ( by saying that L2=m2 u2 a2 = m2 v2 c2 (where u is the initial velocity and v is the final velocity) and then putting the expression from the problem in as the v2 and then simplifying it down using the initial velocity of u as squrt.(GM/a)) I then put this in keplars 3rd rule but with no success.
I could have made some mistake here or forgot to consider something but I just can not get my head around it.
It would be great if someone could just hint me where I could have gone wrong or what I should/can consider to stay the same during the mass loss.

Thanks a lot in advance already!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I don't see how the angular momentum would help here. Consider v2=GM((2/r)-(1/a)). We know v and r of the Earth today satisfy this equation, and we know r=a as the orbit is supposed to be circular.
How does the equation look like directly after the Sun lost some mass? v and r will still be the same, but two other things change. You can write that as new equation. Set them equal to get rid of v and you should get the new semimajor axis a function of the old one and the mass loss.
 
Hello. Welcome to PF.

Maik said:
I then attempted to solve it for the point at which r=a (initially) and then the same for the new orbit. By then considering the conservation of angular momentum I found an expression on the new a (calling it c) as follows: c= a/(1-f) ( by saying that L2=m2 u2 a2 = m2 v2 c2 (where u is the initial velocity and v is the final velocity) and then putting the expression from the problem in as the v2 and then simplifying it down using the initial velocity of u as squrt.(GM/a))
Your result c = a/(1-f) is not correct. I believe your mistake might be due to using the symbol "a" for two different distances. You use "a" to denote the distance of the planet from the star at the moment the star's mass changes. But you also use "a" do denote the semi-major axis in the formula v2 = GM[(2/r)-(1/a)]. But the radius of the initial circular orbit does not equal the semi-major axis of the new elliptical orbit.
 
mfb said:
v and r will still be the same, but two other things change. You can write that as new equation. Set them equal to get rid of v and you should get the new semimajor axis a function of the old one and the mass loss.

Thank you so much, by considering that v and r stay the same I was able to solve it.
Just out of curiosity, how do I know that the v and r will stay the same even when the sun losses mass?
 
TSny said:
Your result c = a/(1-f) is not correct. I believe your mistake might be due to using the symbol "a" for two different distances. You use "a" to denote the distance of the planet from the star at the moment the star's mass changes. But you also use "a" do denote the semi-major axis in the formula v2 = GM[(2/r)-(1/a)]. But the radius of the initial circular orbit does not equal the semi-major axis of the new elliptical orbit.
That's right, I just saw that in my working now, thank you for pointing it out to me.
I should really be more careful when it comes to things like this.
Thank you for your help!
 
Maik said:
Thank you so much, by considering that v and r stay the same I was able to solve it.
Just out of curiosity, how do I know that the v and r will stay the same even when the sun losses mass?
At the moment the Sun loses mass, the Earth is a certain distance from the Sun (r) and has a given velocity(v). The Sun losing mass will not change these properties at that moment, just the future trajectory of the Earth from that moment on.
 
Janus said:
At the moment the Sun loses mass, the Earth is a certain distance from the Sun (r) and has a given velocity(v). The Sun losing mass will not change these properties at that moment, just the future trajectory of the Earth from that moment on.
Ah I see that makes sense.
Thank you!
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K