Order of an element in a group

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of the order of an element in a finite group, specifically focusing on the cardinality of the subgroup generated by an element and its relation to the identity element of the group.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the definition of the order of an element and its implications, questioning the assumptions about the cardinality of the generated set. There are attempts to clarify the relationship between the powers of an element and the identity element, as well as discussions on the counting of distinct elements in the generated subgroup.

Discussion Status

The conversation is ongoing, with participants providing hints and counter-examples to clarify misunderstandings. Some participants are attempting to connect their previous knowledge to the current problem, while others are questioning the validity of assumptions made about the structure of the generated set.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of confusion regarding the definitions and properties of the generated subgroup, particularly in relation to the cardinality and distinct elements. Participants are also navigating the implications of their findings in the context of finite groups.

  • #31
Bashyboy said:
I am sorry to rehash this again, but I am having trouble with one argument I made:
I don't see why this implies that ##a## and ##k## have to have the same exponent. Isn't it possible that ##k > a##, yet ##g^k## and #g^a## get mapped to the same element?

Correct. I didn't read closely enough. ##g^k=g^a## doesn't mean k and a are the same. Just the powers of g are the same. Omit that statement and the rest is fine.
 
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  • #32
I am not sure how I can conclude ##\langle g \rangle## and ##G_r## are the same set, then. Haven't I only demonstrated that ##G_r## is a subset?
 
  • #33
Bashyboy said:
I am not sure how I can conclude ##\langle g \rangle## and ##G_r## are the same set, then. Haven't I only demonstrated that ##G_r## is a subset?

Haven't you shown that for any a, ##g^a=g^k## for some k in {0,1,...,r-1}? Isn't that enough?
 
  • #34
Oh, and so this forces them to be equal, and it forces the exponents of ##\langle g \rangle##, without any repetition, to be {0,1,2,3...,r-1}. Is that right?
 
  • #35
Bashyboy said:
Oh, and so this forces them to be equal, and it forces the exponents of ##\langle g \rangle##, without any repetition, to be {0,1,2,3...,r-1}. Is that right?

What do you mean 'without repetition'? ##g^a## is in ##G_r## for any a. So ##\langle g \rangle## is contained in ##G_r##. Isn't that clear?
 
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