P-adic valuation expression for a given natural number

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the p-adic valuation, ## v_p(n) ##, of natural numbers, exploring whether there exists a mathematical expression for this valuation. Participants delve into theoretical aspects, proposed formulas, and algorithmic approaches related to the computation of p-adic valuations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants define the p-adic valuation as the highest power of a prime p that divides a natural number n, providing an example with ## v_3(45) = 2 ##.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the existence of a general formula for ## v_p(n) ##, suggesting that the distribution of primes complicates this.
  • A participant presents a derived formula for ## v_p(n) ## based on the p-adic valuation of factorials, involving the sum of digits in the base-p expansion of n.
  • Another participant questions whether there is a formula for the sum of the digits in the base p expansion, noting that it may require an iterative application of the Euclidean algorithm.
  • One participant proposes an alternative formula for ## v_p(n) ## involving logarithmic functions and ceiling functions, but expresses doubt about its practical utility.
  • Some participants discuss the potential need for algorithmic approaches to compute ## v_p(n) ##, considering the randomness of prime factoring as a function of n.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying opinions on the existence and utility of formulas for p-adic valuation, with no consensus reached on a definitive expression or method for computation.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions involve assumptions about the properties of primes and the behavior of p-adic valuations, which may not be universally accepted or resolved within the thread.

DaTario
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TL;DR
Hi All, is there a closed expression that yields the p-adic valuation of a natural number n ?
Hi All,

If p is a prime, the p-adic valuation, ## v_p(n) ##, of a positive natural number is defined as the highest power of p that divides n. For instance, ##v_3(45) = 2##.
My question is: Is there a mathematical expression for ##v_p(n)## ?
 
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doubtful - primes are too scattered around
 
Thank you, mathman. Could you please elaborate a bit more on this comment?
 
I have just found this paper:
https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1907/1907.11902.pdf
where the author derives a formula for ##v_p(n)##. The approach goes like this:

##v_p (n) = v_p (n!) – v_p ((n –1)!)##
##= (n – s_p (n))/(p –1) – (n –1– s_p (n–1))/(p –1) ##
##= (1 – s_p (n) + s_p (n–1))/(p –1)##
##= (1 – Δ s_p (n–1))/(p –1). ##

where ##s_p (n)## denotes the sum of the digits in the base-p expansion of n.

Example: ##v_3(36) = 2 ##
##36 = 1 . 9 + 1 . 27 \Rightarrow s_3(36) = 1 + 1 = 2##
##35 = 2 . 1 + 2 . 3 + 1 . 27 \Rightarrow s_3(35) = 2 + 2 + 1 = 5##
Thus,
##v_3(36) = \frac{1 - \Delta s_3(36) + \Delta s_3(35)}{3-1} = \frac{1 - 2 + 5}{2} = \frac{4}{2} = 2 ##.

Thak you all.
 
Last edited:
Editing the last post: In the last equation there is no ##\Delta## anymore.
 
Last edited:
is there some formula for the sum of the digits in the base p expansion? this is something that seems to require an iterative application of the euclidean algorithm.
 
Yes, mathwonk, it seems to require such algorithmic approach. Do you think using instead functions as Floor[ ], Ceiling[ ] and FractionalPart[ ], to implement ##v_p(n)##, will demand the same algorithmic structure?
 
I found a simple and alternative formula for ##v_p(n)##, given by:
$$
v_p(n) = \lfloor \log_p (n) \rfloor - \sum_{j=1}^{\lfloor \log_p (n) \rfloor} \left \lceil \left \{ \frac{n}{p^j}\right \} \right\rceil,
$$

But it does not seem to be of any practical use.
 
DaTario said:
Thank you, mathman. Could you please elaborate a bit more on this comment?
No deep study. Just a gut feeling, since prime factoring seems to be "random" as a function of n.
 
  • #10
Thank you, mathman.
 

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