How to Prove a Congruence Relation for Prime Numbers?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving a congruence relation involving binomial coefficients and prime numbers. Specifically, participants explore the relation $$ {n-1 \choose p-1} {n \choose p-1} \equiv 0 (\mbox{mod p}) $$ for a prime number p and a natural number n such that $$p < n < p^2$$. The conversation includes various approaches, mathematical reasoning, and attempts to clarify the proof structure.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • DaTario proposes a congruence relation involving binomial coefficients and seeks a proof.
  • Some participants suggest expressing the left-hand side in a fractional form to analyze factors of p in the numerator and denominator.
  • There is a discussion about the necessity of considering the upper bound for n and the implications of the factorial terms in the proof.
  • One participant points out that there must be at least one multiple of p between n and (n-p+1) to formalize the proof.
  • Another participant introduces Kummer’s theorem as a potential method to prove the relation, discussing p-adic valuations and digit sums.
  • Participants express uncertainty about the correctness of simplifications made during the proof process, particularly regarding the use of factorials.
  • Wilson’s theorem is mentioned as a possible tool, but one participant later questions its relevance in this context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion contains multiple competing views and approaches to proving the congruence relation. Participants do not reach a consensus on a single proof method, and there is ongoing debate about the validity of various steps and theorems introduced.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the proof may depend on the specific properties of prime numbers and the behavior of binomial coefficients, with some steps remaining unresolved or unclear. There is also mention of the need for careful consideration of factorial terms and their implications in the proof.

DaTario
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TL;DR
Hi All, I would like to ask for help in proving the following congruence relation:
Let p be a prime number and let ##n## be a natural such that ##p < n < p^2##. Then
$$ {n-1 \choose p-1} {n \choose p-1} \equiv 0 (\mbox{mod p}) $$
Hi,
I would like to prove the following congruence relation:

Let p be a prime number and let ##n## be a natural such that ##p < n < p^2##.
Then
$$ {n-1 \choose p-1} {n \choose p-1} \equiv 0 (\mbox{mod p}) .$$

I am expecting it to have a rather trivial proof. Thanks in advance for any contribution, ...

Best Regards,
DaTario
 
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Write LHS in the form of fraction. Numerator includes p successive multiples, i.e.
n(n-1)...(n-p+1) so we know it must have factor p. Denominator ##(p-1)!^2## cannot have factor p.
 
But the denominators also have ##(n-p)!## and ##(n-p+1)!##.
And now I realize that ##n## need not to have an upper bound.
 
Please show me full form of fraction to check your claim.
 
Ok, now I got it (you showed a part of the numerator and made some simplifications). But I am still not so confident that the whole proposition is demonstrated. Firstly because it seems that you have made the simplification exactly with the factorial of (p-1), which you claim appears in the denominator at the end. Forgive me if I am asking too much. Can we go step by step in this proof?
 
We have:
$$ \frac{(n-1)!}{(p-1)! (n-p)!}\frac{(n)!}{(p-1)! (n-p+1)!} \equiv 0 (\mbox{mod p}) $$
 
So it is written as
\frac{(n-1)(n-2)...(n-p+1)}{(p-1)!}\frac{n(n-1)(n-2)...(n-p+2)}{(p-1)!}=\frac{n(n-1)^2(n-2)^2...(n-p+2)^2(n-p+1)}{(p-1)!^2}
You see n(n-1)(n-2)...(n-p+1) in the numerator.
 
Last edited:
I see it. Twice, almost (there are ##(n-1)!## and ##n!##.)
 
The formalization of this proof requires one to point out that between ##n## and ##(n-p+1)## there is certainly at least one multiple of ##p##, doesn't it?

(I still have the impression that you are simplifying the numerator with the (p-1)! instead of doing so with the factor (n-p)!)
 
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  • #10
DaTario said:
The formalization of this proof requires one to point out that between ##n## and ##(n-p+1)## there is certainly at least one multiple of ##p##, doesn't it?

(I still have the impression that you are simplifying the numerator with the (p-1)! instead of doing so with the factor (n-p)!)
An idea:

You could look at the factors of ##p## generally in numbers between ##p## and ##p^2##.

PS There is an elementary proof based on that idea. Try with ##p = 5## first, perhaps, then generalise.
 
  • #11
DaTario said:
And now I realize that n need not to have an upper bound.
PeroK said:
You could look at the factors of p generally in numbers between p and p2.

I would like to know ##p^2## is mentioned in what intention.
 
  • #12
anuttarasammyak said:
I would like to know ##p^2## is mentioned in what intention.
It's generally true for ##n > p##.
 
  • #13
I think you could prove this using Kummer’s theorem, which expresses the p-adic valuation of ##{n\choose m}## in terms of digit sums. I worked through it partially, and you end up with something like ##v_p({n\choose p-1})=1+\frac{s_p(n+1)-s_p(n)}{p-1}## if ##p|n+1##, or otherwise just ##1##. Assuming that ##n\geq p##.
 
  • #14
Thank you very much, suremarc, but could you show, please, more steps of this proposed demonstration?
 
  • #15
I changed my mind while writing out my steps, because I made some mistakes and there is a much simpler proof along the lines of what PeroK stated. Mainly, use Wilson’s theorem to show that ##v_p((p-1)!)=0##, and then one has $$v_p\Bigg({n\choose p-1}\Bigg)=v_p((n)_{p-1})$$ which is nonzero if and only if there is a multiple of ##p## between ##n-(p-1)## and ##n,## inclusive. (##(n)_k## is a falling factorial, or just ##\frac{n!}{k!}##.)
 
  • #16
DaTario said:
Thank you very much, suremarc, but could you show, please, more steps of this proposed demonstration?

$$ {n-1 \choose p-1} {n \choose p-1} = \big ( \frac{1}{(p-1)!} \big )^2\big ( \frac{n!}{(n-p)!} \big ) \big (\frac{(n-1)!}{(n-p+1)!} \big ) $$
Now count the factors of ##p##. The first term has none, the last term must have at least as many in the numerator as the denominator. And, the middle term must have at least one more factor of ##p## in the numerator. This holds for any ##n > p##.
 
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  • #17
D’oh. Why do I keep bringing in number theory theorems? (p-1)! is obviously not divisible by p, no need for Wilson’s theorem.
 
  • #18
Thank you very much, suremarc and PeroK.
 

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