Parallel rectangles contained in oblique rectangle

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter psie
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Measure theory
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a lemma related to the construction of the Lebesgue measure in measure theory, specifically concerning the relationship between oblique rectangles and parallel rectangles. Participants are exploring how to prove a lemma that states the volume of a finite collection of parallel rectangles contained within an oblique rectangle does not exceed the volume of the oblique rectangle. The conversation includes theoretical considerations and potential proofs, as well as the implications of linear transformations on volume.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion about the author's reference to a "fuller discussion of the volume function" and seek clarification on how to prove the lemma.
  • One participant suggests that the volume of an oblique rectangle could be defined as the limit of smaller parallel rectangles, arguing that this approach would show the volume of the oblique rectangle is at least as large as that of the parallel rectangles.
  • Another participant proposes that volume is a valuation on convex bodies and relates it to the Riemann integral of the indicator function, suggesting that integrating over the oblique rectangle minus the parallel interior rectangle yields a non-negative result.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes proving that an affine transformation changes the measure by a constant factor, specifically the absolute value of the determinant, and asserts that orthogonal transformations preserve volume.
  • One participant requests a proof sketch or reference for the lemma, indicating that the omission of a proof in the lecture notes is a point of frustration.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the proof of the lemma. Multiple competing views and approaches are presented, with some participants proposing different methods of reasoning and proof without agreeing on a single method.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the lemma's proof may require advanced tools from the theory of valuations in convex geometry, and there is uncertainty regarding the implications of the definitions and properties of volume in relation to oblique and parallel rectangles.

psie
Messages
315
Reaction score
40
TL;DR
In my lecture notes, there is a geometrically intuitive result that seems to require more advanced tools, but the author has omitted a proof. I'm looking for a proof sketch of the result, or perhaps even a reference to where this is proved in more detail.
I am reading these notes on measure theory. On page 27, in chapter 2 on the construction of the Lebesgue measure, in section 2.8 on linear transformations, the author presents a lemma which is not proved. I wonder, how can one prove this?

The author uses the following terminology; a (closed) rectangle ##R \in \mathbb R^n## is parallel if it is parallel to the coordinate axes, and a (closed) rectangle ##\tilde{R}\in\mathbb R^n## is oblique if it isn't parallel (a parallel rectangle is an ##n##-fold Cartesian product of compact intervals, and an oblique rectangle is the image under an orthogonal transformation of a parallel rectangle). An almost disjoint collection of sets means that the sets intersect each other at most along their boundary. ##v(\cdot)## is the volume of a rectangle, i.e. the product of the length of its sides (where length of say ##[a,b]## is simply ##b-a##). Note, that since an orthogonal transformation preserves lengths and angles, we have ##v(\tilde{R})=v(R)##.

Here's the lemma:

Lemma 2.29. If an oblique rectangle ##\tilde{R}## contains a finite almost disjoint collection of parallel rectangles ##\{R_1, R_2 \dots, R_N\}## then
$$\sum_{i=1}^N v(R_i) \leq v(\tilde{R}).$$
And the motivation that follows the Lemma is the following:
This result is geometrically obvious, but a formal proof seems to require a fuller discussion of the volume function on elementary geometrical sets, which is included in the theory of valuations in convex geometry. We omit the details.
Do you know what the author could mean by "fuller discussion of the volume function"? If you do know a proof, I'd be grateful for a sketch.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
psie said:
I'd be grateful for a sketch.

I think the least you can do is take ##n=2## and post a simple sketch

##\ ##
 
If by sketch you mean a drawing, then I don't see how this could prove the lemma, even if one were to only consider ##n=2##. What I meant by sketch is an outline of how one would go about proving the lemma.

Hence, I want to append some background material to my above post.

The author notes prior to this lemma that ##\mu(R)=v(R)## for parallel rectangles ##R##, where ##\mu## is Lebesgue measure, but it has not yet been shown that ##\mu(\tilde{R})=v(\tilde{R})## for oblique rectangles ##\tilde{R}##. Here's a proposition that has been proved earlier, I don't know if it's useful:

Proposition 2.6. If a rectangle ##R## is an almost disjoint, finite union of rectangles ##\left\{R_{1}, R_{2}, \ldots, R_{N}\right\}##, then $$v(R)=\sum_{i=1}^{N} v\left(R_{i}\right).$$ If ##R## is covered by rectangles ##\left\{R_{1}, R_{2}, \ldots, R_{N}\right\}##, which need not be disjoint, then $$v(R) \leq \sum_{i=1}^{N} v\left(R_{i}\right).$$
 
  • Informative
Likes   Reactions: BvU
This seems surprisingly annoying. I guess the thing they're referring to is that volume is a valuation on convex bodies. This is not really that different from just observing that volume is the Riemann integral of the indicator function, which is always going to be Riemann integrable for convex sets, and since the indicator function is non negative integrating over the oblique rectangle minus the parallel interior rectangle gives a non negative number. (Since volume on convex bodies is probably defined by the Riemann integral, I'm not sure how else you would do it)
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: psie
I think the simplest way to do this is to prove that an affine transformation (linear tranformation + translation) changes the measure of by constant factor, namely the absolute value of the determinant of the matrix that gives the linear transformation. Prove this for elementary linear transformations first (permutations of coordinates, dilations/contractions along one axis, reflections in an axis, shear transformations). Then, it must hold for products of such transformations, hence for all linear transformations (and affine transformations by applying translations). Since the determinant of an orthogonal matrix is +1 or -1, an orthogonal transformation (plus a translation) preserves measure, and since it also preserves length, it preserves volume, so the volume of an oblique rectangle must be the same as a the volume of a congruent parallell rectangle.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: psie and FactChecker
psie said:
TL;DR Summary: In my lecture notes, there is a geometrically intuitive result that seems to require more advanced tools, but the author has omitted a proof. I'm looking for a proof sketch of the result, or perhaps even a reference to where this is proved in more detail.

I am reading these notes on measure theory. On page 27, in chapter 2 on the construction of the Lebesgue measure, in section 2.8 on linear transformations, the author presents a lemma which is not proved. I wonder, how can one prove this?

The author uses the following terminology; a (closed) rectangle ##R \in \mathbb R^n## is parallel if it is parallel to the coordinate axes, and a (closed) rectangle ##\tilde{R}\in\mathbb R^n## is oblique if it isn't parallel (a parallel rectangle is an ##n##-fold Cartesian product of compact intervals, and an oblique rectangle is the image under an orthogonal transformation of a parallel rectangle). An almost disjoint collection of sets means that the sets intersect each other at most along their boundary. ##v(\cdot)## is the volume of a rectangle, i.e. the product of the length of its sides (where length of say ##[a,b]## is simply ##b-a##). Note, that since an orthogonal transformation preserves lengths and angles, we have ##v(\tilde{R})=v(R)##.

Here's the lemma:


And the motivation that follows the Lemma is the following:

Do you know what the author could mean by "fuller discussion of the volume function"? If you do know a proof, I'd be grateful for a sketch.
I thought one could define the volume of the oblique rectangle as the limit of smaller and smaller parallel rectangles. In particular for almost disjoint rectangles the volume of them is the sum of their volumes. Then it seems somewhat trivial to show that the volume of the oblique triangle is at least as big as the volume of the parallel rectangles with a bit of care by choosing a grid such that the parallel rectangles volumes don't change under the limiting process.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: psie

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K