Parallel transport and geodesics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of parallel transport and geodesics in differential geometry, exploring the implications of the covariant derivative and the behavior of vectors along various paths. Participants examine the definitions, interpretations, and geometric understanding of these concepts, considering both theoretical and practical aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that a vector field is parallel transported along a curve if the covariant derivative of the vector field along the path is zero, leading to two interpretations of what this means.
  • One interpretation suggests that certain paths leave the vector unchanged, while others may stretch or turn it, indicating a specific set of paths for parallel transport.
  • Another interpretation posits that the equation describes how the vector should change along any chosen path to remain constant with respect to the connection.
  • Some participants argue that in flat space, vectors can be parallel transported in any direction without preferred paths, supporting the second interpretation.
  • Geodesics are described as paths that parallel transport the tangent vector to the path itself, suggesting a specific relationship between geodesics and parallel transport.
  • Examples involving the parallel transport of vectors on a sphere are discussed, illustrating how vectors change when transported around different paths, such as lines of constant latitude.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of parallel transport on closed curves, where vectors may return to a different orientation even in flat space, depending on the path taken.
  • Some participants prefer geometric constructs, like Schild's ladder, for understanding parallel transport rather than relying solely on formal definitions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing interpretations of parallel transport and geodesics, with no consensus reached on the implications of these concepts. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise meaning and implications of parallel transport along various paths.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of the definitions and the potential for misunderstanding, particularly regarding the relationship between paths, vectors, and the covariant derivative. There is an acknowledgment of the limitations of formal definitions in conveying the geometric intuition behind parallel transport.

dianaj
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A vector field is parallel transported along a curve if and only if the the corariant derivative of the vector field along the path is 0. That is

\frac{d}{d\lambda} V^\mu + \Gamma^\mu_{\sigma \rho} \frac{dx^\sigma}{d\lambda} V^\rho = 0

This is basically what every book says. But what exactly does it mean?
1) if you have a vector (field), there is a specific set of paths, that - when you transport the vector along them - will leave the vector 'unchanged'. That means that there are certain paths that change the vector i.e. stretches it or turns it or whatever.
2) the equation describes how the vector (field) should change when you move it along a certain path (any path you choose) in order to keep it constant with respect to the connection.

I can see arguments for both interpretations and it's driving me crazy. ;)

In flat space space you can parallel transport a vector in any direction you want - there are no right or wrong paths. This speaks for 2).

A geodesic is a path that parallel transports a vector that is the tangent vector to the path itself. This speaks for 1) (i.e. for a vector there is a specific parallel transport path, for the tangent vector to the path this is the path itself)

If you have a sphere and parallel transport the vector

V = (1,0)

around a circle of constant \theta (altitude) the vector changes like

V(\theta,\phi) = \left(\cos(\phi \cos\theta), \frac{-1}{\sin \theta}\sin(\phi \cos\theta)\right)

This speaks for 2) as you can clearly choose any path (any altitude (except the north/south pole of course)). It also shows the vector is not constant with respect to the path (the path parameter being $\lambda = \phi$) as it changes when you go round.

So...which one is it? What point am I missing? ;)
 
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Vectors can be parallel transported in any direction. There are no preferred directions for parallel transport.
 
In (1), you seem to be implying that somehow it is that path that changes the vector. The vector is defined in the tangent space at a point p. If you have a path through p, this vector may be parallel transported along it to another point. You also refer to vector fields instead of vectors, so again I don't quite understand what you're implying.
 
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The formal definitions of parallel transport are very good for calculation, but for understanding the idea I prefer geometrical constructs, like Schild's ladder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schild's_ladder

Consider a parallelogram - if opposing sides are of equal lengths, the opposing sides are parallel. And we know how to calculate lengths if we have a metric, so there isn't any problem in the notion of "sides of equal length".

So if we have a metric, the idea that the sides of a parallelogram "should be" parallel if the parallelogram is small enough gives a unique idea of parallel transport. As long as you don't mind representing vectors as line segments, that is...
 
dianaj said:
A vector field is parallel transported along a curve if and only if the the corariant derivative of the vector field along the path is 0. That is

\frac{d}{d\lambda} V^\mu + \Gamma^\mu_{\sigma \rho} \frac{dx^\sigma}{d\lambda} V^\rho = 0

This is basically what every book says. But what exactly does it mean?
1) if you have a vector (field), there is a specific set of paths, that - when you transport the vector along them - will leave the vector 'unchanged'. That means that there are certain paths that change the vector i.e. stretches it or turns it or whatever.
2) the equation describes how the vector (field) should change when you move it along a certain path (any path you choose) in order to keep it constant with respect to the connection.

I can see arguments for both interpretations and it's driving me crazy. ;)

In flat space space you can parallel transport a vector in any direction you want - there are no right or wrong paths. This speaks for 2).

A geodesic is a path that parallel transports a vector that is the tangent vector to the path itself. This speaks for 1) (i.e. for a vector there is a specific parallel transport path, for the tangent vector to the path this is the path itself)

If you have a sphere and parallel transport the vector

V = (1,0)

around a circle of constant \theta (altitude) the vector changes like

V(\theta,\phi) = \left(\cos(\phi \cos\theta), \frac{-1}{\sin \theta}\sin(\phi \cos\theta)\right)

This speaks for 2) as you can clearly choose any path (any altitude (except the north/south pole of course)). It also shows the vector is not constant with respect to the path (the path parameter being $\lambda = \phi$) as it changes when you go round.

So...which one is it? What point am I missing? ;)

When you have a Riemannian connection a vector parallel transported along a curve keeps its length and its angle to the tangent direction of the curve. If two vectors are parallel transported along the same curve, the angle between them remains constant. If you parallel transport a vector around a closed curve then the vector may come back to a different vector even in a flat space. Also the change in the vector when it returns to the starting point may depend on the curve, even in a flat space.
 
dianaj said:
If you have a sphere and parallel transport the vector

V = (1,0)

around a circle of constant \theta (altitude) the vector changes like

V(\theta,\phi) = \left(\cos(\phi \cos\theta), \frac{-1}{\sin \theta}\sin(\phi \cos\theta)\right)

...

This speaks for 2) as you can clearly choose any path (any altitude (except the north/south pole of course)). It also shows the vector is not constant with respect to the path (the path parameter being $\lambda = \phi$) as it changes when you go round.

Did you mean latitude?

dianaj said:
A vector field is parallel transported along a curve if and only if the corariant derivative of the vector field along the path is 0. That is

\frac{d}{d\lambda} V^\mu + \Gamma^\mu_{\sigma \rho} \frac{dx^\sigma}{d\lambda} V^\rho = 0

I think a better description might be "A path is a geodesic (the equivalent of a straight line in curved space) if and only if the covariant derivative of the vector field along the path is 0." I am not an expert on this subject so I welcome the real experts to correct the terminology and semantics.

dianaj said:
This is basically what every book says. But what exactly does it mean?
1) if you have a vector (field), there is a specific set of paths, that - when you transport the vector along them - will leave the vector 'unchanged'. That means that there are certain paths that change the vector i.e. stretches it or turns it or whatever.

The specific set of paths that leave the vector unchanged are called geodesics.

dianaj said:
2) the equation describes how the vector (field) should change when you move it along a certain path (any path you choose) in order to keep it constant with respect to the connection.
This is probably the better definition because a vector can be parallel transported along a path without the covariant derivative remaining zero. For example a vector can be parallel transported along a line of constant latitude on the globe and not necessarily still be parallel to itself on returning to the start point. This is because a line of latitude (other than the equator) is not on a great circle and is not a geodesic. This deviation or precession of the vector when parallel transported along a path (the non zero covariant derivative value) is a measure of how much the path deviates from the equivalent of a straight line in curved space (a geodesic).

It might help to think of a imaginary parallel transport vehicle. This vehicle is designed so that whenever the vehicle turns x degrees clockwise, the vector it is transporting turns x degrees anticlockwise (or vice versa) so that on a two dimensional plane the transported vector always remains parallel to its starting position. Now imagine the following journey. The vehicle starts at the equator and heads to the North pole. At the North pole it makes a 90 degree turn clockwise and heads South back towards the equator. At the equator it makes another 90 degree turn clockwise and heads back to its starting point and makes a final 90 degree turn so that the vehicle is aligned with its original heading. The vector it was transporting is now rotated 270 degrees anticlockwise relative to its starting position. The internal angles of the triangle formed by this journey add up to 270 degrees rather than the usual 180 degrees we would normally expect for a triangle in flat space. If this vehicle has its wheels locked in the straight ahead position it will be forced to follow a great circle or geodesic on the globe and its transported vector will not precess from its original direction when it returns to its starting point. Now if the vehicle follows a line of latitude it has to turn its front wheels to stay on the line of latitude because if it tries to keep pointing straight ahead it will be forced to deviate from the line of latitude. This turning of the front wheels of the vehicle to stay on the line of latitude, causes the vector it is transporting to precess. In a nutshell, deviating from a geodesic path causes precession of the parallel transported vector.

I think the source of your confusion is the use of the term "parallel transport" for something that is not necessarily parallel transported in the casual sense.

Page 26 of this document
http://www.shef.ac.uk/physics/teaching/phy314/relativity/previous_years/lectures/full_page/relativity_lecture_8.pdf shows a nice trick with a cone on sphere that may help visualise the situation.
 
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kev said:
It might help to think of a imaginary parallel transport vehicle. This vehicle is designed so that whenever the vehicle turns x degrees clockwise, the vector it is transporting turns x degrees anticlockwise (or vice versa) so that on a two dimensional plane the transported vector always remains parallel to its starting position. Now imagine the following journey. The vehicle starts at the equator and heads to the North pole. At the North pole it makes a 90 degree turn clockwise and heads South back towards the equator. At the equator it makes another 90 degree turn clockwise and heads back to its starting point and makes a final 90 degree turn so that the vehicle is aligned with its original heading. The vector it was transporting is now rotated 270 degrees anticlockwise relative to its starting position. The internal angles of the triangle formed by this journey add up to 270 degrees rather than the usual 180 degrees we would normally expect for a triangle in flat space. If this vehicle has its wheels locked in the straight ahead position it will be forced to follow a great circle or geodesic on the globe and its transported vector will not precess from its original direction when it returns to its starting point. Now if the vehicle follows a line of latitude it has to turn its front wheels to stay on the line of latitude because if it tries to keep pointing straight ahead it will be forced to deviate from the line of latitude. This turning of the front wheels of the vehicle to stay on the line of latitude, causes the vector it is transporting to precess. In a nutshell, deviating from a geodesic path causes precession of the parallel transported vector.

That's a nice way to think of it. It kind of makes sense. :)

kev said:
Page 26 of this document
http://www.shef.ac.uk/physics/teaching/phy314/relativity/previous_years/lectures/full_page/relativity_lecture_8.pdf shows a nice trick with a cone on sphere that may help visualise the situation.

Thank you for the link, it looks good. Before I look at it more closely I just have a few questions.

The change of coordinates that they calculate, describe how the vector will look, when it has been transported to a new point, from the new point's view, right?

Also, the figure at page 24 is sort of how I thought a tangent vector to the equator would be parallel transported around the equator - i.e. along its own geodesic. I thought that transport around a circle in flat space (which is sort of like the top part of the sphere) would keep the vector pointing 'up' (whith up I here mean at 12 o'clock in the drawing).
 
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dianaj said:
Also, the figure at page 24 is sort of how I thought a tangent vector to the equator would be parallel transported around the equator - i.e. along its own geodesic. I thought that transport around a circle in flat space (which is sort of like the top part of the sphere) would keep the vector pointing 'up' (whith up I here mean at 12 o'clock in the drawing).

I think the diagram you refer to is a little misleading. Starting at the 3 o'clock position with the vector pointing in the 12 o'clock direction, the transported vector should continue to point roughly in the 12 o'clock direction.

The equation that they give for the precession of a vector transported along a line of latitude is:

\alpha = \phi*\cos(\theta)

If the vector is transported half a circle around a line of latitude the equation becomes:

\alpha = \pi*\cos(\theta)

At the equator \theta is 2*pi so \alpha = 0 so there is no precession and the vector is pointing in the same direction as the vehicle.

Very near the North pole \theta is close to zero (say 0.1 radians) so for a half circle path \alpha = \pi*\cos(0.1) = 0.995*\pi radians, so by the time the vehicle has traveled to the 9 o'clock position in the diagram the vector will have been rotated nearly half a turn clockwise relative to the vehicle (and in the plane tangential to the surface the vehicle is on) and still pointing roughly in the 12 o'clock direction. (The vector is now pointing roughly to the rear of our imaginary vector transportation vehicle.)

dianaj said:
The change of coordinates that they calculate, describe how the vector will look, when it has been transported to a new point, from the new point's view, right?

I think that is correct.
 
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Thank you for your answers - I think my understanding has improved. :)
 

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