Partial Derivatives - Basic Formula

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the derivation of a formula related to partial derivatives using Taylor's theorem. Participants explore the application of Taylor expansions in multiple variables and how to handle expansions with respect to one variable while treating others as constants.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant requests an explanation of how the formula is derived using Taylor's theorem.
  • Several participants propose that the formula can be derived by expanding one variable at a time, specifically mentioning the use of Taylor expansions at points (x_0, y_0+k) and (x_0, y_0).
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the method of using two variables in a Taylor expansion, noting their prior experience has only covered one-variable expansions.
  • There is a discussion about treating the other variable as a constant when performing partial derivatives, with some participants agreeing on this approach.
  • One participant seeks clarification on how to incorporate the constant y_0+k into the Taylor expansion.
  • Another participant mentions the need to expand different terms of the function along both horizontal and vertical segments in the context of the Taylor expansion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the method of treating other variables as constants during partial derivatives, but there is no consensus on the clarity of the derivation process or the handling of multiple variables in Taylor expansions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of the derivation.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express confusion about the application of Taylor expansions in multiple variables, indicating a potential gap in understanding the transition from one-variable to multi-variable expansions. There are unresolved questions about the introduction of constants into the Taylor expansion.

elemis
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Could someone please explain how the formula at the bottom of the page is derived i.e. how is the Taylor theorem used to obtain it ?
 

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You can derive it, by expanding one variable by one.

f(h+x_0, k+y_0)=f(x_0,y_0+k)+f_x(x_0,y_0+k)h+1/2f_xx(x_0,y_0+k)h^2+++
=f(x_0,y_0)+f_y(x_0,y_0)k+1/2f_yy(x_0,y_0)k^2+f_xy(x_0,y_0)hk+1/2f_xx(x_0,y_0)h^2+++

Where the terms up to second order can be rearranged into the desired equation.
 
arildno said:
You can derive it, by expanding one variable by one.

f(h+x_0, k+y_0)=f(x_0,y_0+k)+f_x(x_0,y_0+k)h+1/2f_xx(x_0,y_0+k)h^2+++
=f(x_0,y_0)+f_y(x_0,y_0)k+1/2f_yy(x_0,y_0)k^2+f_xy(x_0,y_0)hk+1/2f_xx(x_0,y_0)h^2+++

Where the terms up to second order can be rearranged into the desired equation.

I'm not sure what you've done there to be honest.
 
First, I make a one-variable Taylor-expansion of the function in x, at the point (x_0,y_0+k).
Then, I make a one-variable expansion in y of the different terms.
 
arildno said:
First, I make a one-variable Taylor-expansion of the function in x, at the point (x_0,y_0+k).
Then, I make a one-variable expansion in y of the different terms.

I have to be truthful, my professor used a similar method to what you described but I just can't see how he used two variables in a Taylor expansion since I've only ever learned to deal with Taylor expansions of one variable.

Could you please break this down further for me ? I would be very much obliged.
 
elemis said:
I have to be truthful, my professor used a similar method to what you described but I just can't see how he used two variables in a Taylor expansion since I've only ever learned to deal with Taylor expansions of one variable.

Could you please break this down further for me ? I would be very much obliged.

Well, but when you do partial derivatives, you regard the other variable to be a CONSTANT.
Agreed?

Thus, the function f(x,y), evaluated at the 2-D point (x_0+h,y_0+k) may be regarded as a single-variable function of x along the (horizontal) length segment from (x_0, y_0+k) to (x_0+h, y_0+k).
Along THAT line segment, we may perfectly well expand the function in its Taylor series relativ to "x".
 
In one variable we have

f(x+h)~exp(hD)f(x)=f(x)+hDf(x)+(h^2)(D^2)/2f(x)+...

in several variables

f(x+h)~exp(h.∇)f(x)=f(x)+h.∇f(x)+(h.∇)^2/2f''(x)+...
 
Why, lurfflurff, do you come up with compact notation a newbie couldn't possibly understand??
 
arildno said:
Well, but when you do partial derivatives, you regard the other variable to be a CONSTANT.
Agreed?

Thus, the function f(x,y), evaluated at the 2-D point (x_0+h,y_0+k) may be regarded as a single-variable function of x along the (horizontal) length segment from (x_0, y_0+k) to (x_0+h, y_0+k).
Along THAT line segment, we may perfectly well expand the function in its Taylor series relativ to "x".

Yes, I agree and understand what you mean.

The difficulty I'm having is how do I introduce the constant y_0+k into my taylor expansion ?
 
  • #10
elemis said:
Yes, I agree and understand what you mean.

The difficulty I'm having is how do I introduce the constant y_0+k into my taylor expansion ?
At whatever places "y" stands in the expression for "f" itself.

Furthermore, once you have expanded "f" along the horizontal length segment from (x_0, y_0+k) to (x_0+h, y_0+k), you may expand the different terms of "f" along the VERTICAL length segment from (x_0,y_0) to (x_0, y_0+k).
 

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