Partial differential equation problem

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of transforming a given partial differential equation (PDE) into a simpler form, specifically whether a linear transformation can convert a general second-order PDE into the Laplace equation, \(\nabla^{2} U = 0\). The scope includes theoretical considerations of PDEs, transformations, and properties of quadratic forms.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions if a linear transformation can simplify the PDE \(aU_{xx}+bU_{yy}+cU_{zz}+dU_{xy}+eU_{xz}+fU_{yz}=0\) to \(\nabla^{2} U = 0\).
  • Another participant argues against the possibility, referencing the invariance of certain quantities under linear transformations and the nature of quadratic forms.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that if the PDE is smooth, certain mixed derivatives can be interchanged without changing the equation.
  • One participant emphasizes that transforming a hyperbolic equation into an elliptic form is not feasible due to their differing characteristics and invariants, such as rank and signature.
  • Another participant proposes that if the original equation is elliptic, there might be a way to transform it into a canonical form.
  • A later reply indicates that the original question may pertain more to eliminating first derivative terms rather than achieving the specific form of Laplace's equation.
  • It is suggested that while conversion to elliptic form may not be possible, transformations to hyperbolic or parabolic forms could be achievable.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing opinions on the feasibility of transforming the PDE into the Laplace equation. There is no consensus, as some argue against the transformation while others suggest alternative forms may be achievable.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of specifying the function space and boundary conditions when discussing transformations of PDEs.

eljose
Messages
484
Reaction score
0
If we call [tex]U_{xx}= \partial _{x} \partial _{x} U[/tex] the second partial differential derivative so we have for the Laplace operator:

[tex]\nabla ^{2} U = U_{xx}+U_{yy}+U_{zz}[/tex] then let,s suppose we have the differential equation:

[tex]aU_{xx}+bU_{yy}+cU_{zz}+dU_{xy}+eU_{xz}+fU_{yz}=0[/tex]

then my question is if we can use a linear transform to choose another coordinate system so the equation read: [tex]\nabla^{2} U=0[/tex]

thanks.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I think not.

Think of quadratic forms. In three dimensions, can you use a coordinate transform to bring an arbitrary quadratic form into the form [tex]\xi_1^2 + \xi_2^2 + \xi_3^2[/tex]? What quantities are invariant under linear transforms?
 
-But if the form is quadratic?...take into account that if the function is "smooth" then [tex]U_{xy}=U_{yx}[/tex] so the differential equation remains unchanged under changing x by y or z and so on...
 
Well, what I wanted to say was (in two dimensions, say), that it doesn't make sense to try to change the PDE [tex]U_{xx} - U_{yy} = 0[/tex] (hyperbolic) into [tex]U_{xx} + U_{yy} = 0[/tex] (elliptic). The former has two characteristics while the latter has none. This is related to the theory of quadratic forms in the following way: if your 2nd order PDE is given by [tex]a_{ij} U_{x_i x_j}[/tex] then there is an associated quadratic form [tex]a_{ij} \xi^i \xi^j = 0[/tex] (summation over repeated indices understood).

Now, there are two classical invariants for quadratic forms, the rank (being the rank of the matrix [tex]a_{ij}[/tex]) and the signature. Recall that the signature is found by diagonalizing [tex]a_{ij}[/tex] and reducing it to a form with only +1 and -1 on the diagonal; the number of -1s is the signature. Linear transformations leave rank and signature invariant. For instance, the hyperbolic equation I mentioned earlier has signature 0 and the elliptic equation has signature 1 and are hence inequivalent.

So the answer to your question is no.
 
I think that if the equation is originally elliptic, I think it should be some way of transforming the equation to canonical form (i.e. lap(U)=0)
 
eljose said:
If we call [tex]U_{xx}= \partial _{x} \partial _{x} U[/tex] the second partial differential derivative so we have for the Laplace operator:

[tex]\nabla ^{2} U = U_{xx}+U_{yy}+U_{zz}[/tex] then let,s suppose we have the differential equation:

[tex]aU_{xx}+bU_{yy}+cU_{zz}+dU_{xy}+eU_{xz}+fU_{yz}=0[/tex]

then my question is if we can use a linear transform to choose another coordinate system so the equation read: [tex]\nabla^{2} U=0[/tex]

thanks.
You must presise your space (sobolev, holder, besov,...) and your boundary conditions
 
I think eljose's question was really about getting rid of the first derivative forms which you can (almost) always do.

Tantoblin's objection was that you cannot, in general, convert specifically to the elliptic form Uxx+ Uyy+ Uzz= 0, Laplace's equation.

It might, rather, be the case than you can convert to the hyperbolic forms Uxx+ Uyy- Uzz= 0 or Uxx- Uyy- Uzz= 0, the wave equation, or
the parabolic forms Uxx+ Uyy+ Uz= 0 or Uxx+ Uy+ Vz= 0, the heat(diffusion) equation.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
6K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K