Partial Differentiation Troubles

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the topic of partial differentiation in the context of vector calculus, specifically focusing on the relationship between velocity and acceleration vectors as functions of time and space. The original poster expresses confusion regarding the derivation of the acceleration vector from a velocity function and the application of the chain rule.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to derive the acceleration vector from the velocity vector using the chain rule but questions the equivalence of their expressions. They seek clarification on the notation and the application of the chain rule in this context.
  • Some participants suggest considering the velocity as a function of time and space, indicating that the acceleration can be derived by calculating the total derivative with respect to time.
  • Others introduce the concept of the convective derivative and its relevance to the discussion, noting how it relates to the rate of change of velocity in a fluid context.
  • There is a mention of potential confusion regarding different interpretations of the derivative in relation to fluid dynamics.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing insights into the nature of the derivatives involved and clarifying the original poster's misunderstandings. There is an exploration of different interpretations of the acceleration vector and its derivation, but no explicit consensus has been reached on the original poster's specific questions.

Contextual Notes

The original poster expresses a desire for clarity in notation and understanding, indicating a potential gap in foundational knowledge regarding vector calculus and its applications in physics.

Saladsamurai
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Homework Statement



Okay, I know that I must be overlooking the obvious here, but here goes.

Take some velocity function of time and space V(x,y,z,t) and we want to find its derivative, the acceleration vector a(x,y,z,t)

If we have

[tex]\vec{V}=u\hat{i}+v\hat{j}+w\hat{k}[/tex]

Then by chain rule:

[tex]\vec{a}=\frac{\partial{\vec{V}}}{\partial{t}}+u\frac{\partial{\vec{V}}}{\partial{x}}+v\frac{\partial{\vec{V}}}{\partial{y}}+w\frac{\partial{\vec{V}}}{\partial{z}}[/tex]

(did I mess something up in the last step? Where did i, j and k go? Sorry...Engineer :blushing:)

Now isn't it true that (ignoring the first term involving time)

[tex]a_x=u\frac{\partial{\vec{V}}}{\partial{x}}[/tex] ?Because I am confused as to why my book says that [tex]a_x=u\frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{x}}+v\frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{y}}[/tex]

I am not seeing how the two are equivalent?

Where am I screwing this up? Because I know that it is me :smile:

Also: feel free to address any notational issues you see with my math. I would like to be able to communicate this stuff clearly and properly
 
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V is a vector-valued function of x, y, and z, each of which is a function of t alone. So ultimately, V and a are functions of t alone, and it makes sense to talk about dV/dt. At least that's what I think you're talking about. To find a, calculate dV/dt, which means that you calculate dx/dt, dy/dt, and dz/dt.

For example, if V(t) = (cos t, sin t, t), then a(t) = (-sin t, cos t, 1). You can also write these in the unit vector notation as
V(t) = cost i + sin t j + t k, and a(t) = -sin t i + cos t j + k.
 
This is also known as the convective derivative. You can write it compactly as:

[tex]\frac{D \vec{V}}{Dt} = \frac{\partial \vec{V}}{\partial t} + \vec{V}\cdot \nabla \vec{V}[/tex]

Or in terms of components:

[tex]\frac{D V_{i}}{Dt} = \frac{\partial V_{i}}{\partial t} + \sum_{k}V_{k}\frac{\partial V_{i}}{\partial x_{k}}[/tex]
 
I think you are confusing different problems. The "convective derivative" that Count Iblis mentions applies to the rate of change of a some property of a "fluid" as you move along with the fluid. If you are given the velocity vector [tex]\vec{V}=u\hat{i}+v\hat{j}+w\hat{k}[/tex] giving the velocity vector at some point in the x,y,z coordinate system, the acceleration vector at that point is just [tex]\vec{a}= \frac{d\vec{V}}{dt}=\frac{du}[dt}\hat{i}+\frac{dv}{dt}\hat{j}+\frac{dw}{dt}\hat{k}[/tex]
What count Iblis gives is the rate of change of velocity if you measured it from a boat moving with the flow.
 

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