Particle in a box, find the frequency of collisions

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a classical mechanics problem involving a particle of mass m confined in a box of length L. Participants are exploring how to determine the frequency of collisions with the walls of the box and the momentum associated with each collision.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss starting points such as the root-mean-square velocity and the implications of the coefficient of restitution on collision frequency and momentum transfer. There are questions about deriving the frequency of collisions and the average force from the momentum transfer.

Discussion Status

Several participants have offered different approaches to calculating collision frequency and momentum transfer, with some suggesting the need for assumptions about elastic collisions. There is an ongoing exploration of how these assumptions affect the results, and the discussion reflects a mix of interpretations regarding the role of the coefficient of restitution.

Contextual Notes

Participants are considering both classical and quantum perspectives, and there are indications of uncertainty regarding the assumptions necessary for the problem, particularly concerning the nature of the collisions.

ehrenfest
Messages
2,001
Reaction score
1

Homework Statement


Given a particle of mass m in box of length L, how would you find the frequency of collisions on a given wall and the momentum of each collisions?


Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution



Should I start with the equation for the root-mean-square-velocity? How can one derive the freqeuncy of collisions from that?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Well, if initially the particle has velocity [tex]\vec{v}[/tex], then after the collision, its velocity should be [tex]-e\vec{v}[/tex], where e is the coefficient of restitution. Assuming that there is no other force acting on the particle (air resistance etc...), the particle would take time [tex]t=\frac{L}{ev}[/tex]. Hence, the frequency of collision is [tex]f=\frac{ev}{L}[/tex].

After the first collision, the velocity was ev, after the second one it will be [tex]e^2v[/tex], and hence, after the nth one it will be [tex]\vec{v(n)}=(-1)^ne^n\vec{v}[/tex]. Therefore, the momentum after each collision will be mev, [tex]-me^2\vec{v}[/tex], and after the nth collision [tex]\vec{p(n)}=(-1)^nme^n\vec{v}[/tex].
 
Hmmm. I asked the first part of the question hoping the second half would be obvious after that. But since it is not, let me ask the whole question:

We are given a classical particle with energy E (from which we know its velocity [tex]\sqrt{2E/m}[/tex]. We want the frequency with which it collides with a given wall, the momentum transfer per collision, and finally the average force.

So the frequency as you said is [tex]f=\frac{ev}{L}[/tex] and the momentum transfer (I think) would be -e, where e is the coefficient of restitution. So would the average force be:

momentum transfer per collision * collisions / time

?

I'm not sure but I do not think the answer should have a coefficient of restitution in it?
 
I guess the momentum transfer per collision will be |p(n)|-|p(n-1)|. This would give you [tex]\del p(n)=m\vec{v}e^{n-1}(e-1)[/tex].

The average force per collision should be momentum transfer per collision*frequency of collision.Perhaps there's another way to do this, but I think by this method, you WILL have the coefficient of restitution present in the solution expression.
 
to get the answer in my book, I think you have to pretend the particle is bouncing back and forth with no vertical velocity component and that the collisions are perfectly elastic. Then,

[tex]p = \sqrt{2Em}[/tex]

and the change in momentum per collision is 2p and the frequency of collisions are 2Lm/p. So the average force would be

[tex]\Delta p / \Delta t = 2E/L[/tex]

Am I right about the need to make those assumptions?
 
I think you are right. This is probably a question intended to compare a quantum situation with classical, right?
 
Yeah. Probably. But then I don't think the momentum transfer will be with the mod values, but with the vector values.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
1K
Replies
335
Views
17K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
Replies
23
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K