Particles as different states of a matter field.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the concept of particles as solitons that correspond to metastable states of a universal matter field. Participants engage with ideas from quantum field theory and consider analogies and implications of such a model.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that particles could be conceived as solitons in a universal matter field, suggesting a new perspective on particle behavior.
  • Others argue that in quantum field theory, particles are quantized excitations of distinct fields rather than solitons, and that no universally accepted theory of a 'universal matter field' exists.
  • A participant draws an analogy comparing particles to icebergs floating in water, indicating that different particles might represent different forms of these 'icebergs' within the matter field.
  • Concerns are raised regarding the implications of different intrinsic spins of particles and how they would fit into a single matter field representation.
  • References to historical papers are made, suggesting that the idea of non-dispersive solutions for matter-waves might be relevant to the discussion.
  • One participant mentions the concept of breaking large symmetries and relates it to phase changes, using the analogy of a triple point to illustrate coexistence of particles under certain conditions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of the concept of a universal matter field and the role of solitons, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without consensus.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of a generally accepted theory for a universal matter field and the complexity of representing different particle types within a single framework.

MTd2
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This is too wild to post on beyond standard model but I am not proposing anything here. Just want to know your thoughts.

Is it reasonably possible to conceive particles as solitons corresponding to metastable states of a unique universal matter field?
 
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MTd2 said:
This is too wild to post on beyond standard model but I am not proposing anything here. Just want to know your thoughts.

Is it reasonably possible to conceive particles as solitons corresponding to metastable states of a unique universal matter field?

It'd fit just fine in the quantum physics section methinks. In quantum field theory (which
underlies the standard model), particles are simply the quantised excitations of quantum
fields. They don't have (and to the extent of my knowledge, are not) to be described by
solitons though; free, initially localised particles will spread out in qft just as they do in
elementary qm.
 
I am really thinking about solitons. Let me make a rough analogy. For example, if we really look close to a particle at an instant of time, say, an electron, we would see it as a kind of "iceberg floating on water". "Water" being that kind of universal matter field. We'd look to a photon, and we'd see a different kind of "iceberg".
 
The problem is that different kinds of particles have different intrinsic spin. Spin, according to QFT, is a consequence of the representation of the Lorentz group in which the field associated with a particular type of particle happens to be.

Leptons and quarks are spin-1/2 particles (although not all of them are with the same chirality), while the gauge bosons (the eight gluons for the strong interaction and the [itex]W^{\pm}[/itex], Z0 and the photon for the electroweak interaction) are spin-1 particles and the Higgs boson is predicted to be a spin-0 particle.

If all these particles are to be considered excitations of the same matter field, then this field would have to be in some complicated mixed representation of the Lorentz group and your theory would have to account for the observed decomposition of this field in two sub-sectors.
 
MTd2 said:
I am really thinking about solitons. Let me make a rough analogy. For example, if we really look close to a particle at an instant of time, say, an electron, we would see it as a kind of "iceberg floating on water". "Water" being that kind of universal matter field. We'd look to a photon, and we'd see a different kind of "iceberg".

Then I'm afraid your speculation is groundless. No generally accepted theory of a
'universal matter field' exists AFAIK; in QFT, every kind of particle (and its
antiparticle) are associated to a different field (say, an electronic-positronic field
for electrons/positrons, or the electromagnetic field for photons), but no single
universal field.

Why are you thinking specifically of solitons anyway?
 
The OP probably became aware of the paper:

N. J. Zabusky, M. D. Kruskal, Phys. Rev. Lett. 15, 240–243 (1965)
 
Dickfore said:
The OP probably became aware of the paper:

N. J. Zabusky, M. D. Kruskal, Phys. Rev. Lett. 15, 240–243 (1965)

I see. I assumed (s)he wanted a non-dispersive solution for matter-waves, so
(s)he could have particles that remained localised at all times. I just wanted a
confirmation from him/her.
 
Another interesting paper on the subject with some useful references in it might be:

S. Coleman, Phys. Rev. D 11. 2088 (1975)
 
Oudeis Eimi said:
I see. I assumed (s)he wanted a non-dispersive solution for matter-waves

More or less like that. You could say that I would be thinking about breaking large symmetries , but something that has more of a phase change aesthetic. (This is why I am posting on General Physics).

For example, take the triple point:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_point

Particles would coexist at the fusion line, but with a huge enthalpy of fusion. Think about as many "triple" points as it gets to break symmetries.
 
  • #10
MTd2 said:
More or less like that. You could say that I would be thinking about breaking large symmetries , but something that has more of a phase change aesthetic. (This is why I am posting on General Physics).

For example, take the triple point:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_point

Particles would coexist at the fusion line, but with a huge enthalpy of fusion. Think about as many "triple" points as it gets to break symmetries.

Errrr... I'm afraid I'm not following you.
 

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