Particles in objects are constantly exchanged w/ particles in environment

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Farishta
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Particles
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of particle exchange between objects and their environment, specifically focusing on whether particles in inanimate objects, like tables, are constantly being replaced by particles from the surrounding environment. Participants also explore how these particles maintain the shape of the object and touch upon related concepts in quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that particles in objects, such as tables, are constantly exchanged with the environment, leading to the idea that an object may not retain any of its original particles over time.
  • Others argue that this concept may be more applicable to living organisms rather than inanimate objects, suggesting that tables in a stable environment, like nitrogen gas, would be relatively inert.
  • A participant mentions the possibility of electron sharing or tunneling as a mechanism for particle exchange but expresses uncertainty about the speed and relevance of this process.
  • One participant provides a detailed example involving ice, explaining how molecules at the surface are constantly replaced due to equilibrium with water vapor, suggesting that similar processes could apply to other materials.
  • Another participant introduces the idea of virtual particles in quantum mechanics, noting that these are not the same as the particles that make up matter but are involved in mediating forces between particles.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the concept of particle exchange in inanimate objects, with no consensus reached on the applicability of this idea to tables. Some participants challenge the initial premise, while others provide supporting examples and alternative explanations.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the conditions under which particle exchange occurs, the definitions of terms like "exchange," and the specific mechanisms involved in maintaining the shape of objects. The discussion also touches on complex concepts in quantum mechanics without fully clarifying their relevance to the main topic.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in the interactions between matter and its environment, concepts of particle physics, and the behavior of materials at the molecular level may find this discussion relevant.

Farishta
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
I read or watched a documentary a long time ago that explained that the particles in any given object are constantly being exchanged with particles in the surrounding environment. i.e. the particles of matter that make up a table are constantly being added to and taken away, exchanged with the environment, so that the table has none of the same particles over time that it originated with.

I'm wondering if anyone knows anything about this and can point me in the direction of more information about it.

Also, if anyone knows of any sources on the topic of how the particles in the table keep themselves in the shape of the table, that information would be useful as well.

Thank you. This is my first post here and am thankful for any comments.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Farishta said:
I read or watched a documentary a long time ago that explained that the particles in any given object are constantly being exchanged with particles in the surrounding environment. i.e. the particles of matter that make up a table are constantly being added to and taken away, exchanged with the environment, so that the table has none of the same particles over time that it originated with.
That sounds like living organisms, not tables-- tables in a N2 gas would seem to be pretty inert I would think. They might mean electrons tunneling from atom to atom, but I don't think that happens very quickly, I don't know if that's what they meant.
 
Thanks, Ken G. It's possible that it was discussing electron sharing but it's been so long since I either saw or read about the topic that I don't recall exactly what was being said. I appreciate your input.
 
Farishta said:
I read or watched a documentary a long time ago that explained that the particles in any given object are constantly being exchanged with particles in the surrounding environment. i.e. the particles of matter that make up a table are constantly being added to and taken away, exchanged with the environment, so that the table has none of the same particles over time that it originated with.

I'm wondering if anyone knows anything about this and can point me in the direction of more information about it.

Also, if anyone knows of any sources on the topic of how the particles in the table keep themselves in the shape of the table, that information would be useful as well.

Thank you. This is my first post here and am thankful for any comments.

I'm not sure about a wooden table, but the phenomena you describe is fairly common in phase exchange situations. Let's say your table is made of ice at a temperature of -25°C. This surface of ice is in a state of equilibrium with an atmosphere of water vapor.

That surface would receive some 2.51 x 10^24 vapor molecule impacts per square meter per second. The general assumption is that most (if not all) of these molecules "stick". Since we have equilibrium, the same number leave that ice surface in one second. Since there will be 9.81 x 10^18 surface molecules per square meter, this means that each surface molecule is "replaced" some 256 thousand times each second.

This "replacement" in not all due to the "newcomers". Many of the surface molecules will be replaced by adjoining molecules just below the surface. And many of the newcomers will have sufficient kinetic energy of translation to penetrate below the surface molecular layer of the ice.

As for the ice table keeping its shape, the same intermolecular binding forces that kept the departing molecules in place will apply to the newcomers as well.
 
Some of this sounds like a badly misunderstood explanation of force carriers. In quantum mechanics, forces are mediated by a constant exchange of virtual particles. These virtual particles are not the particles that an object is made of, they are "incomplete" particles that last only a brief time, traveling between the particles making up normal matter and carrying the forces holding things together. Sound familiar at all?
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
5K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K