Particles - subparticles - subsubparticles

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the consideration of models in particle physics, specifically regarding the existence of particles like quarks and leptons being composed of lighter subparticles, known as preons. Participants explore the theoretical implications, historical context, and current research status related to these models.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why contemporary particle physicists do not consider models of quarks and leptons as being built from lighter subparticles, suggesting a potential oversight in theoretical exploration.
  • Others point out that recent experiments at the LHC have not found evidence for such subparticles, which may influence the current stance of physicists.
  • Historical models, such as preon models, are discussed, with some noting that previous models faced issues with binding energies exceeding the rest masses of quarks and leptons.
  • Newer preon models emerging from q-deformed loop quantum gravity (LQG) are mentioned as potentially overcoming the limitations of earlier models, although progress in this area appears to have stagnated in recent years.
  • One participant expresses interest in the preon hypothesis but finds it lacking in depth, suggesting a need for further exploration or development.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relevance and viability of preon models, with some highlighting a lack of experimental support while others advocate for their theoretical potential. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the future of these models in particle physics.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions underlying the viability of preon models and the dependence on experimental data from the LHC. The lack of recent research activity in this area is also noted.

dimilion
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Why recent particle physicists don’t consider models of particles (quarks, leptons)
built from more light subparticles?
Is there problems of principle
or the available experimental data don’t need similar models?
 
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dimilion said:
Why recent particle physicists don’t consider models of particles (quarks, leptons)
built from more light subparticles?

Before you ask why something is so, uiut's a good idea to find out if it is so. The LHC experiments have published about a dozen papers searching for such things. And not finding them.
 
As an example, there were the old preon models but the binding energies well exceeded quark, lepton rest masses. More recently, new preon models are coming from q-deformed LQG where "preon configurations" come about by an entirely different mechanism and so does not necessarily suffer from the drawback of the old models.
 
Last edited:
julian said:
More recently, new preon models are coming from q-deformed LQG where "preon configurations" come about by an entirely different mechanism and so does not necessarily suffer from the drawback of the old models.
but afaik there has not been much progress (or even research activities) over the last couple of years
 
tom.stoer said:
but afaik there has not been much progress (or even research activities) over the last couple of years
Yes - afaik.
 
If something is not forbidden, it is possible.

I find preon hypothesis interesting, but not sufficiently deep.
 

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