Pascal's rule: restrictions on n and k.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Pascal's rule in combinatorics, specifically the conditions under which the rule applies, including the values of n and k. Participants explore the implications of different definitions and cases, including k=n and k=n+1, and how these affect the validity of the theorem.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference Wikipedia's statement that Pascal's rule applies when 0
  • One participant questions what prevents k from being equal to n, suggesting that the theorem holds for k=n, providing specific values for C(n,n) and C(n,n-1).
  • Another participant agrees that the theorem is valid for k=n and states that it can also be true for k=n+1 if C(n,n+1) is defined as 0.
  • There is a mention of the conditions under which C(n,k) and C(n+1,n) are valid, specifically that k must be greater than 0 and n must also be greater than 0.
  • Participants discuss extending the definitions further, such as defining C(n,-1)=0, but express a desire to avoid complicating the discussion unnecessarily.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of Pascal's rule for k=n and k=n+1, with some asserting its validity while others highlight restrictions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these definitions.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific mathematical definitions and conditions that may not be universally accepted, indicating a potential dependence on context and definitions used in combinatorial mathematics.

Rasalhague
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According to Wikipedia: Pascal's rule, C(n,k)+C(n,k-1)=C(n+1,k) applies when 0<k<=n+1. But this page says it only applies when 0<k<n. Wikipedia's proof of this version of Pascal's rule involves multiplication by k/k, and by (n+1-k)/(n+1-k). What, if anything, prevents k=n?

Reading on, Corwin seems to only take care to avoid the case where k is strictly greater than n: "In our sum, this means we need to split out the k=0 and k=n+1 terms before applying Pascal's identity." (I've standardised his labelling of variables in this quote.)
 
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Rasalhague said:
According to Wikipedia: Pascal's rule, C(n,k)+C(n,k-1)=C(n+1,k) applies when 0<k<=n+1. But this page says it only applies when 0<k<n. Wikipedia's proof of this version of Pascal's rule involves multiplication by k/k, and by (n+1-k)/(n+1-k). What, if anything, prevents k=n?

Reading on, Corwin seems to only take care to avoid the case where k is strictly greater than n: "In our sum, this means we need to split out the k=0 and k=n+1 terms before applying Pascal's identity." (I've standardised his labelling of variables in this quote.)

Hi Rasalhague! :smile:

The theorem is perfectly valid for k=n. In fact:

C(n,n)=1
C(n,n-1)=n
C(n+1,n)=n+1

Thus C(n,n)+C(n,n-1)=C(n+1,n).
The theorem is even true for k=n+1, provided we define C(n,n+1)=0.
 
Hi micromass - ever ready to spring to my aid! Then C(n+1,n)=C(n,k)+C(n,k-1) is good as long as k>0, and C(n,k)=C(n-1,k)+C(n-1,k-1) as long as n>0 and k>0.
 
Rasalhague said:
Hi micromass - ever ready to spring to my aid! Then C(n+1,n)=C(n,k)+C(n,k-1) is good as long as k>0, and C(n,k)=C(n-1,k)+C(n-1,k-1) as long as n>0 and k>0.

Yep! We can even extend it a bit more if we define C(n,-1)=0 and stuff, but let's not make it even more complicated :smile:
 

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