Percentage of neutral pions created

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    Neutral Pions
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the factors influencing the percentage of neutral pions produced when bombarding a target with a high-energy proton beam. It explores theoretical considerations, energy levels, and the nature of the target material, with a focus on both high and lower energy scenarios.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the percentage of neutral pions produced depends on the target material and energy, estimating it to be around 1/3 to 1/2 of all produced primary pions.
  • One participant questions how this estimation is derived, proposing a scenario with a liquid hydrogen target and discussing the impact parameter and energy of the incoming proton.
  • Another participant posits that at high energies, such as those at the LHC, the production of positive, negative, and neutral pions becomes approximately equal.
  • It is noted that at high energy, light quarks and antiquarks are produced in large amounts, leading to a variety of hadrons, with a suggestion that the probabilities for forming different types of pions are similar.
  • A participant clarifies that only a specific linear combination of quarks forms a neutral pion, which leads to a discussion about the expected ratio of neutral pions.
  • One participant cites isospin symmetry to argue that in the limit, the expected ratio is 1/3, referencing measured data at 91 GeV.
  • Another participant mentions that even at very high energy events, the neutral pion has a slight edge in production percentage due to the hadronization process occurring near the \Lambda_{qcd} scale.
  • There is a suggestion that decays of heavier states, rather than mass differences, may slightly favor the production of neutral pions.
  • A participant raises a question about the expected percentage of neutral pions at lower energies, specifically with a 3 GeV beam, compared to the 91 GeV case.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the factors affecting the production of neutral pions, particularly regarding the influence of energy levels and the nature of quark interactions. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various assumptions, such as the impact parameter and energy levels, and the influence of quark mass and hadronization processes, which may affect the conclusions drawn about pion production percentages.

cambrian
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When bombarding a target with a high energy proton beam, of the pions produced, what determines the percentage of them that are neutral?
 
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It depends on your target material and the energy.
I would expect that about ~1/3 to ~1/2 of all produced primary (!) pions are neutral.
 
Thanks mfb.

How do you know this? Let's say we had a liquid hydrogen target (so all proton targets). So we have an incoming proton with energy E interacting with a stationary proton. There will be some impact parameter, p. Given E and p (well - I would be messing with Heisenberg - but let's say we knew them within some small error) , is there a rule for determining what pions are produced?

Thanks again.
 
I believe at high energies such as at the LHC, details cease to matter, and the number of positive, negative and neutral pions produced is about equal.
 
At high energy, light quarks (especially up and down) and antiquarks are produced in large amounts, and combine to some hadrons afterwards. I would expect that "up anti-down", "down anti-up", "up anti-up" and "down anti-down" all have a similar probability, and form pi+, pi-, pi0, pi0, respectively. That approximation is not perfect, of course, as you have the initial valence quarks (2 up and 1 down in the beam, some variable composition in the target) and the quarks have a small mass.
 
But it's only the linear combination (up-antiup - down-antidown) that forms a pi0, right?
 
Right, therefore I wrote 1/3 to 1/2 - I would expect that the neutral pion counts twice, but I am not sure.
 
In the limit it's 1/3. This is from isospin symmetry. At 91 GeV, the measured number is 0.369 +/- 0.014.
 
Even for for events with very high pt jets at the LHC ( 1TeV) the neutral pion has the slight egde mentioned by Vanadium 50(~37%) over the democratic case. I think this is because even if the collision happens at very high energies the hadronization process in which the pions are produced occurs close to the [itex]\Lambda_{qcd}[/itex] scale, so the mass difference still has an effect.
 
  • #10
I think it's decays of heavier states, not mass differences, that slightly favor the pi0.
 
  • #11
Thanks everyone, That is very helpful.

What about at lower energies? If I have a 3 GeV beam, would you expect the % of pi0 to increase or decrease compared to the 91 GeV case?
 

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